Elizabeth Wells Interview, October 5, 2020

SEGMENT SYNOPSIS: The following transcript is automated and may not provide an accurate transcription of the interview. There may be typos or inconsistent line breaks. Please refer to the attached document for a more accurate transcript. SUBJECTS: COVID-19; media industry; (Virtual Interview)

Hello, this is Dylan McAdams and I'm going to

be introduced interviewing Elizabeth wells Today is October

5 2020. At 5:57pm do I have permission to record this

interview?

Yes, he did.

Alright, perfect. Okay To start off, just tell me

a little bit about yourself, your back - your education

background, your college and your other colleges, and then

where you work and what department you work for.

Sure. So I studied journalism at the

University of Alabama for my undergraduate degree. And after

I graduated, I moved to Ireland to do a master's in

international studies. And from there, I started freelancing at

CNN, on the international desk in the newsgathering department.

And then last fall, I got hired on as an associate producer for

CNN International Network.

What can you tell me the years you graduated from

University of Alabama and? And from Ireland?

Yes, let me think about it. I've got to do

some math. So Ireland was 2018. And Alabama was 2017. Okay,

excuse me. Now Ireland was 2019. Alabama was 2017. Sorry. Thank

you.

And you said you were hired, last fall to work as

your current, your current job, right? Correct.

Yes, in September of last year.

And what is the official title, job?

associate producer for CNN International.

Alright, can you tell me a little bit about your

daily, like your daily job? What do we do each day when you got

to work?

Absolutely. So I'm so I work on, there's two

kind of separate things that associate producers do. One is

they handle the video and cutting, cutting and editing and

making sure it's ready for air. And then the other side of it is

LIVE SHOT producing, which is what I do. So I come in every

day. And I work on several shows. And sometimes the shows

have moved around, you know, over the course of the past

year, but you're assigned to certain shows, and I do all the

pre production and production for the lives. So if any lab

guest or reporters are going to be on our show that day, I

handle that. I reach out to the reporters to let them know what

we'll be talking about. And we go through that, and then I code

in all the video, or sound bites or any extra visual elements

that we'll need for the shot.

Okay, that's that sounds great. Um, and how is

this changed since COVID has started?

Well, it's actually changed pretty

significantly as so I left a part out, I'm also in the

control room, I'm speaking with reporters before they're going

to get on air talking in their earpiece, and setting up their

shot and making sure it's ready to go. So a huge thing that's

happened obviously, with the with everybody quarantining and

as people have been shut down at different times, in different

countries, our reporters are coming up, you know, via Cisco,

or Skype. Now, instead of having, you know, a really, I

guess, what you could call a professional shot with a camera

crew and everything like that. So we've had to deal with a

learning curve, the tech with Cisco and making the shot

looking presentable on air. And that's kind of been a challenge

for everyone, as you know, anything from internet speed to

lighting to, to audio quality has all kind of gone down. So

we've had to figure out creative ways to learn to kind of step up

that quality with a lot more limited resources.

I do during COVID, have you been working at

home? Or do you come into the office.

So because I'm in the control room for the

shows, we haven't having to go into the office, but because

they're trying to limit the number of people, we we do one

week in the office and one week from home. And they've just sort

of separated the duty. So like, while I'm in the office, now I

work on more shows. I do output more shows from the control

room, but I do less of the pre production like adding an

element reaching out to the reporters and handling more the

editorial side of things. I'll have a counterpart at home

that's doing editorial and then vice versa for when I'm working

from home.

Can you tell me a little bit about how the office

dynamic was before COVID started?

Yeah, so I mean, there was usually at least

20 to 30 people, you know, in the office area where I was

sitting at any given time and we were all bouncing ideas off of

each other. You know, if you had questions you could go straight

to your editor or your show, producer or even And the

executives. So we were all in the control room, you know, as

we work to get our show together, we were talking about,

you know, what they wanted to see and how we were going to do

things, for them to, you know, take the show to air that day,

there was also still a huge component of being on the

telephone, because CNN International has faces in ABI

Dhabi, Hong Kong and London. So sometimes your show producer was

in London, and you were on the phone for you know, an hour

before you go to your show. Other or they're in Atlanta. And

at that point, you know, you're sitting at a desk, 10 feet from

them, or however far they may be.

And how has that kind of changed now that COVID

restrictions have come into place?

Well, we only have a round, I think, at most

six people in our newsroom at any given time. So it's

basically gone to all you know, virtual communication over the

phone, over the computer, whatever it may be, except for,

you know, just a few people in the newsroom we've shifted to

doing instead of editorial in person meetings for our shows,

to kind of set the agenda for today, that all happens on the

phone, we all dial in at a certain time every day, and get

going. And we just started communicating, we have an

internal messaging group that we can use, we use slack a lot more

heavily now for our communication. So it's really

just rethinking the way we communicate and trying to stay

as involved as possible without, you know, being having a

camaraderie of being right around your colleagues and

having that avenue of just easily being able to talk to

them in person.

Has this new dynamic hindered your job in any

way? Is there like anything that you like Miss from being in

person or having more people in the office?

Absolutely, I think we've you know, because of

the everybody's a little bit more overloaded as well, just

trying to keep up with all the changes. And there being less

people in the office, there's more of a kind of a workload on

individuals now. And so it does it sometimes feel like the

communication has been toned down to just what the central,

whereas you know, if you're in the office, you can be

constantly bouncing ideas off people or, you know, be

constantly pitching pitching stories to your editors. And

there's just not the bandwidth for as much of that anymore.

Which is, I think it is unfortunate. And I think it

probably does. I mean, I would say CNN has done a very good job

and all the changes that and still getting quality

programming to air. But you do miss that kind of that kind of

open communication of just being able to think through things

together.

So you told me a little bit about your daily

process, is, desert is a week run any difference, as a daily

run rather than daily? What is your like your week, like?

So it has changed from week to week a

little bit. Whereas my job was kind of combined editorial, and

logistics before everything shut down. Now, from week to week,

for my weeks in the office, it's mostly just logistics. I mean,

there's some editorial to it. And of course, I have to be on

top of the stories and know what's going on and everything.

But my main duties are logistics, and then on my work

from home weeks, it's mainly all editorial, there's just not much

I can do logistically from my position at home. So it's kind

of just been split down the middle like that. And instead of

having, you know, two, two shows that I work on a day I do five

or six shows for shift

is, in your opinion, what side do you like

more of the being in the office or worked on stuff at home,

I like being in the office just because I'm able

to get into, it makes me feel like a more part of the shows

for sure. I like being in the control room and feeling and

having all that side of it. And then I also have a harder time,

I guess getting into just work mode from home, you know,

because there's a million different things that you can

distract you. And you know, if you're in a I'm kind of in a

smaller apartment where I don't have like a designated office

area, it's just hard for me to necessarily get in the zone that

I need to sometimes to work. I mean, you make it work, but it's

still I feel like I don't have the same level of focus as I do

when I'm in my office environment.

Okay, switching gears a little bit, what was

yours and your like, people your work was first reaction when you

heard about COVID coming to the United States.

Huh? That's a good I'd have to think about

that for a moment. I mean, we'd all been following it very

closely as an international network as it you know, the

hotspot moved from China over to Italy into the UK and then over

us. So I think we all kind of knew that it was only a matter

of time until we were going to be dealing with it, you know, at

home. But I don't think any of us realized quite To what extent

How you know how extreme things would get. So I think there's

just all that sense of, you know, a bit of a nervousness,

but about, you know, knowing things would change, but not,

not so much as I think we all thought that it would be handled

a little bit differently, and we'd be out of the woods with a

lot sooner than we actually are, are going to be.

Were you at any point when I was first kind of

coming to the United States, you and your colleagues scared about

your jobs, and a lot of companies had to layoff a lot of

people? Were you did that fear ever crossed your mind?

Yes, absolutely. Um, and our

department did recently did recently have some layoffs. And

I think, you know, in any kind of these uncertain situations,

there's always the fear of that. And journalism is already a

pretty the kind of when landscape of at, you know,

revenue in journalism is kind of changing, and people are

struggling to keep up, especially in broadcast. So

there's always a little bit of that fear, I think, even before

the pandemic, you know, media companies were restructuring all

the time. And we'd already went through a major change or

changes with Warner media taking over. And now this extra thing

is the pandemic and all the uncertainty that that has

caused, I think that there definitely was a very palpable

feel of that in the newsroom.

It actually leads right into my next question.

How, like, how chaotic really was it with Warner media taking

over being freshly new, and then the pandemic hitting like, were

there any problems right off the bat, or we're seeing I think the

scene, things seem normal at first. So

when Warner, Warner media, everything was

pretty much in place by the time I started. So I probably didn't

notice the differences as much, since I kind of just came into

it. I know a lot of people that I talked to had been, you know,

they had, it was kind of a year of anxiety for them, or if not

longer, and things were sort of settling down again, but I was

kind of I kind of moved in as everything was settling back

down. The first few weeks of when everyone was out of the

office, it was quite chaotic. We were all trying to figure out

how we were still going to get put quality television on air a

with our reporters having restricted movement with having

x extremely, you know, an extremely downsized staff into

the office. So there was a lot of changes that had to happen

very, very quickly. That did it did, there was a definitely a

sense of chaos to it.

And how exactly did warnermedia and CNN

International first react when COVID had the United States like

what was theirs, their statements.

So as soon as we had the CDC guidelines, you

know, we immediately were required to wear masks. That was

the first thing. And I guess by the time it was really spreading

in Georgia, and things were looking like they were gonna

shut down. We had to limit staffing. So they started sort

of phasing us out, the writers were the first to move out of

the building, because it was the easiest to move there for them

to pick up their jobs from home. So we slowly started phasing as

many people as we could until we get down to the skeleton staff

of six or seven people in our newsroom as we have now. And I

guess a few months ago, we started Warner media, the

company as a whole started a new app where we have to log we have

to check in every day, we have to take our temperature. And we

go through a set of five or six questions about whether we

believe to have been exposed or experience any symptoms or

anything like that. And of course, we went through

yesterday those questions. You're not allowed in the

building?

Um, do you think the company had a good response?

Yes, I

felt very safe the entire time I've been there.

Is there anything you think they could have done

better than maybe it's something is lacking on one side that

they're focusing too much on one thing that they lacked on the

other thing?

I mean, do you mean just from safety protocols

or from our jobs, more in general of with working from

home and everything

on first safety protocols, and then second,

working from home

safety protocols? I think they they did

as best as they could, as quickly as possible with the

information that we had about the virus. I wouldn't have any

complaints on that end.

What about from working from home?

I think they could have possibly some of the

executives and higher ups could have done more to reach out and

figure out what was working and what wasn't working for people

at home. Okay, I think there was and I think part of that was

everybody being in such a rush. To try to get everything sorted

out. So there is, I mean, it's understandable the way it

happened, but but there were some communication pitfalls in

that time period of the transition.

Mm hmm. So you kind of mentioned a little bit,

how has how what your job has changed? How do you think the

field of journalism as a whole has changed because of

coronavirus?

Well, I mean, while we've been reporting on

the pandemic, there's been countries where you've been

totally locked down. So it's, a lot of that's gone totally

virtual. Whereas we would used to go out and find the story and

be able to, you know, see the story as it's happening before

our eyes, we had to do a little bit more digging online and find

creative ways. What about zoom calls, or just more over the

phone interviews, and in person interviews, we had to transition

to a much, much more reporting that way. We're normally cnn

would send, you know, the reporters out to be in the thick

of things. But it just was not necessarily always an option in

certain countries as they shut down or we deemed the risk was

too great in certain hospital areas to send reporters in.

has it become you think more difficult to find

stories? Or has there been like a learning curve that it's now

becoming kind of second nature,

I think there's definitely been a learning

curve. You had people who are ready to talk about their

experiences, I found a lot in this and I reporter seem to

think the same way. And a reporter could speak to this

much better than I could because they're out in the field,

conducting the interviews, where I'm more on the production side

of things. But you know, people are always good people have

always wanted to tell their stories and still do, it's just

the format is changing a little bit. And the way you reach out

and connect with people had to change some.

When you started down the profession of

journalism, did it ever cross your mind that you would have to

do something like this, especially when you first come

in? into the profession?

No, absolutely not. I could, if you told me

that I, you know, even a year ago, it's just unimaginable. I

never expected something of this. I mean, it's really, it's

like nothing we've seen in our lifetimes, you know, you think

about going in and you know, you'll be covering, you know,

conflicts and crises around the world. But, you know, a global

pandemic was definitely not on the radar.

Do you think if you if you would have known what

is deterred you from pursuing this profession?

No, I don't think so at all. I mean, it's

actually been kind of I do have some appreciation for the fact

that I've been, you know, been able to watch this unfold and

feel a responsibility. You know, I do think it's the biggest

story of our time, and to have come in just, you know, out of

the gate to be able to cover such an important story, I feel

kind of humbled by that and appreciative for the

opportunity. I mean, obviously, no one would ever want this to

happen. But I think we have a huge responsibility to tell the

story. And it's such an important story for people to

have accurate information.

Definitely. And so you've mentioned a little bit

about how you and your colleagues have been taking the

changes. Um, has there been any pushback to some of the changes

in the organization?

Yes, absolutely. I think some people

were not comfortable coming in at all. And they've had to make

adjustments, you know, some of the people in our newsroom are

significantly higher risk. So there wasn't like an even set of

rules that go for everybody. And I think that was kind of

received different ways across the newsroom. Obviously, it's

safer to have people such as myself that are, you know, 20 to

30 years old, then to have our some of our older people that

are 65 plus in the newsroom, which is understandable. I

think. There's been some people that have had to do duties that

were from kind of lower positions due to limited

staffing.

So that

has been I don't know if it's necessarily

been a point of condition can tension but it is something

that's had to happen while we've been here. So I definitely think

there has been some pushback. There's been a lot of schedule

changing like myself, and some of my other colleagues, most of

our daytime programming got canceled or a significant amount

of At first, we weren't doing any daytime television at all,

it was all overnight. So basically, everybody had to

totally switch their schedule to overnights which, which it was

hard on a lot of people within you know, changing your work

schedule completely with all the other changes that was that.

Were going out in the world. It was definitely it definitely.

I guess was a literal shock to the system.

So you work overnights? Yes, ma'am. Yes. How

has How does working overnights kind of like, work for you.

So it actually works quite well. For me. It

took a while to adjust it did because I was on before

everything shut down, my schedule was 6am to 2pm, or 7am

to 3pm, depending on the shows that week. But uh, and now I'm

getting off at 6am. So it was completely flip flopped. And

there was definitely a very brutal two to three month

transition period. I've tried to adjust my sleep schedule, my

eating schedule, and really, you know, everything. But since I've

been able to correct my sleep schedule, I don't I don't mind

it at all. The nights are really busy, we have a great team. And,

and that's where the, you know, the crux of our programming for

international has gone since we, since we are simulcasting so

much more of our domestic network. So once you get past

the transitional phase, it's not too bad, at least for myself.

That's good. How has working about both from home

to the office next week, and then also working at nights kind

of, like affected your personal relationships?

You know, I think it's been kind of a good

time to, I guess, as you know, put your time in on overnights

for the network, because for a good portion of it, you know,

things were very much locked down, and I'm still staying

inside as much as possible. So, you know, I didn't feel like I

was missing out on as much as say, if, you know, I was working

overnights on a normal summer. But yeah, I mean, you You do

have to be much more routine and make much more of an effort to

reach out to people, you know, I can't, you know, my my

afternoons or the times that I can can talk to my, you know,

friends and loved ones and all that. And then I'm sleeping for

most of the day. So just, you do have to be a little bit more

regimented and have to have more of a routine. But overall, it's

been, it's been easy enough, I would say. It's, I don't, I

don't feel like it's really had an I wouldn't say it's had a

negative effect really on any of my personal relationships.

That's good to hear. Um, what has you your

greatest challenge since COVID has started been?

I think, um, I really, really had a hard time

focusing from home. Um, and really like getting the

motivation to get in work mode from the overnights at home was

definitely the biggest challenge for me. And then I would feel

sort of like I was not pulling my way and not doing as well as

I should, you know, there are certain aspects of guilt of

like, feeling that I couldn't fulfill my job duties as much as

I needed to be.

What are what steps did you really take to

kind of help fix this challenge?

i? Well, I've started working in the same

spot. And I, you know, at first I kind of would let myself if

things were I've had a break at work, I would let myself you

know, go do something around the house that needed to be fixed,

you know, or, you know, that I need to take care of, or whether

it's like doing the dishes or doing laundry or doing something

quick like that. You know, just when I had a few minutes of a

break, I would just be doing all these other things, which I

think really led me to be extremely unfocused. So I kind

of set up my workspace and told myself, you know, for those

eight hours, I'm going to be in work mode, even if I need to get

something done around the house or want to, you know, get

distracted by something I'm going to you know, only work on

things that involve CNN. And I think that really helped me

regain my focus.

All right, that sounds really good. That's

sounds like a great way to get back into, like, the focus of

things. Yeah, I

had to really figure out how to separate like,

even though I'm at home, like, I still need to separate the

things that I do at home and my job.

Mm hmm. So kind of moving along a bit. Um, you

and your team recently won an Emmy for a new show. How was it

like winning an Emmy during COVID?

So it was it was really rewarding. I mean,

it's been a It has been a lot of work. You know, the last six

months we've all been kind of overwhelmed. Amid grinding, and

it's just been like such a, such a salacious news cycle, you

know, everybody's been exhausted. So it did feel it

felt pretty it felt right, really, you know, to know that,

you know, to have that kind of recognition. And to know that,

you know, people are paying attention to the stories you're

telling, and that they are, you know, they do matter. So it was

it was really nice, actually.

And the new segment, but you for the new

one, was this produced during COVID? Or was this produced

before that

it was prior to COVID. So it was the in the

Turkish incursion into Syria. Last year that we did it, so

they usually run around a year behind for the award show. So

yes, it was post COVID.

That's actually really interesting. And I guess

really cool to hear that like, winning the Emmy really kind of

helped motivate you guys and kinda like it as like a reward

for all the hard work you guys done, especially with COVID.

Exactly. Yeah, it was it was an uplifting

moment for sure.

All right. Um, so what do you think, the hardest

challenge that CNN has really faced with COVID? You've

mentioned how the hardest challenge that you have faced,

what about you? What do you think about seeing an

international?

Well, I think financially, everybody's feeling

the, you know, the financial strain of it, like most other

big companies are. And then I think, you know, from a more

editorial standpoint of finding all the misinformation and

disinformation that has been out there, surrounding the

surrounding the disease, particularly in the United

States, but also, you know, in Brazil and other places, that

have kind of downplayed the effects of trying to figure out

ways to have the public's trust and get more, you know,

expertise on and really show them that, you know, this is a

very serious disease, and the numbers aren't being faked, the

stories aren't fake, you know, kind of fighting that fake news.

charge that is being thrown at us from a lot of different

politicians, and just trying to gain the public trust and let

them know what you know, the seriousness and the information

that they need to about this disease. And that goes even

further with the, you know, the failing trust of our, into our

medical institutions, you know, even the CDC is under fire right

now. Because everything is so politically charged. So I think

the biggest challenge has really been trying, you know, figuring

out how to, you know, show them, give them all the information

that they need. And while you know, combating these false

narratives, that it's all, you know, overplayed are not that

big of a deal, or all the other reasons and, you know, there's,

there's also a, you know, viewer fatigue, this has been going on

since March. You know, people are people, frankly, I mean, you

can, as we watch how people are responding our stories and what

people are clicking on online, people are getting tired of

hearing about Coronavirus, they're they're,

it's,

the story is, I guess losing steam even though

the virus is not losing steam. And so trying to keep our

viewers interested and such a big consequential thing has been

pretty difficult as as we get further and further into this

pandemic.

Are there anything that is there anything

that cnn is doing to try to like, keep people interested?

Yeah, I mean, we also we, at least my team and

my network, we try to go to the heart of the store, we try to

talk to real people experiencing it. And you know, if there's a

people tend to be interested in big names. So obviously, we

report any, you know, major people that have gotten it, but

we also try to find like your everyday people, and you know,

show them that this is how it is affecting the real lives of

individuals. This is how it's affecting, you know, all the

people that have been laid off over the course of the pandemic.

So trying to talk to people with first hand experiences, has

always been one of the biggest goals, and then also trying to

keep, you know, keep it toward more so to where we had the

doctors on air talking about it instead of politicians. giving

them information has been kind of our strategy.

What about the field of like broadcast media

and journalism in general? Like, do you think other news agencies

have done a good job have like from your outside, like your

view of being part of CNN, but seen other news broadcasts? Do

you think they have done a good job as well?

I would say that most have definitely tried.

I can't speak to the inner workings and their inner you

know, strategies. But I think everybody's doing their best. I

mean, I know most of like colleague, my colleagues, and

everyone has just frankly, been exhausted, you know? So yeah, I

do think we've done we've done a good job particularly in facing

so many changes. And when I say we, I mean that the industry as

a whole, of course, there there is are some media that's right

wing and very left wing. And I think certain networks have

definitely gotten way too politicized with, you know, this

being such a huge election year as well and so much politically

at stake. I do think some networks have strayed from the

from the truth of the story, which is unfortunate.

Particularly for, you know, our audiences that comfort test for

trusted information.

Kind of on the topic of the election, Sina

International, how have they been trying to like, frame the

election? If you guys do frame the election anywhere in any

way?

Well, we try to think of our international

audience, you know, not necessarily. So are the stories

are a little bit more broad and context, and we look at kind of

how the fundamentals of America are gonna change rather than,

you know, some more localized issues, because the

international audience, you know, they're going to be more

curious about foreign policy than, you know, our domestic

audience may be more focused on domestic issues. So there is

definitely a different angle than we take from our domestic

counterpart.

And in this interaction and international,

is there been any, like, stories that you've been told or really

have, like, been harder to produce than others? Let me

think about that.

I find I think it's always harder, you know,

when we have international stories, I think for me, as an

American, it's harder for me to always think, more broadly for

an international audience. So say things like the election.

You know, SCOTUS was a huge story recently that comes to

mind. Because I think of these stories growing up, you know,

with an kind of an American view of thing. And that's how I've

kind of consumed and learn about current events of trying to

repurpose them for an international audience is

challenging for me perfect, personally, from time to time.

But I would have, what do you mean by that more? So? I mean,

do you mean like a specific story that's been hard, or

I'm thinking more like, kind of like, narrowing

down to specific stories from the international community?

Because when you say international means everybody in

the United States, like how do you like other stories that that

kind of you guys come across, I think, Oh, this will be perfect

to show and others. They think, Oh, this, we shouldn't show

this. This. This wouldn't go over well?

Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know. So it's so

much. It's like, yeah, we I mean, there's certain things

that have geopolitical consequences that we're always

going to report on. You know, everyone wants to know how

Coronavirus is doing in different hotspots in the world,

and also in places like New Zealand or Vietnam that have

handled it really well, we try to bring those stories out as

kind of an example of, you know, this is kind of what has worked

in certain places, and this is what happened, doesn't, and

there's been a, you know, an appetite for that.

And I think,

you know, apart from things that are

consequential for the globe as a whole, you know, we try to think

about that. And then also, there's certain stories that are

just, you know, good stories like that, you know, basic human

interest stories that everybody kind of latches on to and feels

a certain way about it, even if it's not necessarily, you know,

consequential to everyone on the entire planet.

Well, switching gears just a little bit, um,

what is it like, being like a woman in the journalism

industry? Because for the longest time, it was very much a

man's industry. How has that changed? Do you think?

So my newsroom is actually very, very female,

heavy, I'd say we were probably around 7030 with mostly females.

So I think that's probably that's a huge switch. Our

executive producer is a female director, one of our directors

as a female, and which is not true for for my understanding to

CNN as a whole, it's still more male dominated. You know, but

for international, we're very female led newsroom, which has

been great. I haven't felt it. I think maybe I was lucky enough

to get in past the time I haven't really felt that being a

female has really caused any has really hindered my ability to

find a job or you know, do do the work that I need to or has

had an effect, you know, in my interpersonal interactions with

people around the world.

Actually, that sounds, that's actually really

great to hear.

Yeah, it's actually better than expected.

Because I think, you know, we've all heard about the horrific

stories that have come to light over the past couple years. And

so you go and kind of thinking one way, and it was, it was nice

that it did not end up being, you know, as we've heard,

do you have like, any advice to give to, like

students in the journalism major, now that you've, after

you've experienced it a bit, and especially in either experience

in a, in a pandemic? Um,

absolutely, I think, you know, it's a very,

it's a very competitive field, but don't ever sell yourself

short. And even if you don't think you know, as you come out,

and they're maybe looking for internships, or jobs, like,

don't apply, because you don't not apply, because you think you

know, that something is too big or something is too, you know,

it's kind of out of your league, you never know, who's going to

see your application, do the end, you know, it's going to

connect with. So definitely go for and just, it takes a certain

amount of stamina and endurance, just keep going for it Don't

give up, it's gonna take a while. But it is very, very

worthwhile. And, you know, don't take criticism when you're

pitching stories. Or coming up with ideas, don't take criticism

of that personally, because you do have to, you do have to get

used to a certain amount of rejection in the field of

journalism. So you have to learn to kind of create a tough skin

and know that that's not a reflection on you as a person,

it's just, you know, it's just the way it is, and you still

need to come up with, you know, you still have to keep pushing

for your stories that you think are important, and fighting to,

you know, to tell those stories.

Alright, sounds that sounds like some great

advice. Um, do you believe that the broadcast media and

journalism field will be different after COVID has

finally passed on?

You know, I've actually thought about that a

lot. I don't know. I mean, that we found cheaper ways to produce

television, but it's not necessarily, I wouldn't say it's

not less, the stories aren't of any less quality, I would say,

but sometimes the production, you know, versus a, you know, a

Skype Cohen from a guest versus, you know, paying to have a

studio done. So I don't know if that will change, you know, just

certain shortcuts financially that can be done. Um,

field as a whole.

I think that's a hard that's a hard thing to,

to predict, to be honest. I'm not sure. I haven't thought

about it. And to be honest, I just I don't know.

Do so you've mentioned something like the

shortcut change? Is there? Is there any other changes that you

think will stay of his past? I

mean, I think he'll definitely let more people

work from home. And I think that's probably true of a lot of

industries, not just journalism. Just because they've realized

that they could make it work.

And do you think the evolution of kind of like,

broadcast media and journalism is a good thing? Or do you think

it's kind of hindering it a bit?

I mean, I still think we're learning with, you

know, not being in the newsroom together. I think there was

definitely it definitely hindered at the beginning. And

there's probably still some residuals of that just not

having the camaraderie and over communication. That is what you

have when you're all sitting in one conference room together, or

one newsroom together. You're seeing each other every single

day. But I do think there's ways around it and as time goes on,

we're getting better and better at it. So I don't think that in

the end, we'll get back back to that. But yes, I mean, it has

hindered at some, but I don't think that'll be a long term

thing. I think we'll kind of learn to to as this situation

becomes, you know, more normal, I think we'll learn that how to

make it work better and better as we go forward.

And you mentioned earlier that you wouldn't change

you would still go into this profession, even if you knew

about Coronavirus but are you still happy like in this varies

too happy with your education choices and your choice of

career After experiencing journalism in the middle of a

pandemic?

Yes, yes, I still very much am. I'm

fortunate I feel like I've already you know, my career has

been off to a very rewarding start. I am around a lot of kind

of veteran legendary reporters and producers and have had the

opportunity to really learn a lot from them even in the time

you know Coronavirus has slowed everything down a little bit

from training purposes and career advancement. All of that,

but I still Yes, I'm still very happy with, with my education

and career choices so far.

That's great to hear. Lastly, is there any

anything that I mentioned that you may want to expand upon? Or

is any other questions that you think I should have asked that I

may have just skipped over?

Let me think about that. Um, I think one

thing I missed over is, I actually just thought of that,

as I was answering your last question is how one thing that

has changed is basically all training. Right now in the

middle of the pandemic, to kind of further your career has more

or less stopped, the executives have just come to come around

trying to find new ways. But that was definitely a major

challenge. Before the pandemic shut down, I was supposed to

start doing some writing trainer, which would be the next

like, natural step and the department that I'm in. And that

basically got put on hold for six months. And, you know, I'm

doing a little bit here and there on my own time off the

clock, but it's still basically on hold. And I think likely will

be until you know, things are open back up a little bit more.

And we can, we can be in the office and get hands on

training, and people are less, less overwhelmed by the new

cycle and all the changes. So that's kind of been tough, I

think you think about, you know, we all have our own ambitions

and everything. And then that kind of gets stomped out for a

while. And it's, of course, in a position that everyone a lot of

people around the world are in, and I feel very fortunate to

still have a job, and then still be working. But it still does,

it can be a little bit discouraging from time to time.

You say that actually, maybe the another

question? What is your like, your full, like full ambition in

this career.

So it still changes a lot to be completely

honest with you, I would love to do some field producing, because

I think, you know, the opportunity to tell people

stories and get out in the field and talk to people I think is

definitely what kind of bring a whole new light to the world,

you know, to the storytelling angle, and a really new

understanding to the stories we're telling to be to be able

to see it firsthand. But I actually would like to

transition out of broadcast to more to more digital format. I

think, for me, the way I consume the news, as you know, growing

up, you know, I was always interested in current events.

And as I studied, I was always I mean, I watched the news a lot

but more so I read about it online or, or you know, in

print, more so than watching on television, and different

opportunities arise. And I ended up where I am now. But uh, I

definitely want to make that transition at some point in my

career and do a little bit more writing and digital

production. Okay. actually brought up another

question. So this most recent Jenner generation does, as you

said, kind of consumes news very differently than than others.

And I feel like that's also been kind of pushed on upon more with

Coronavirus and like, more new, like digital reading news has

been consumed. Do you think this is a big change to the news

industry? Do you think like broadcast media is slowly being

phased out to a more digital accessible platform?

Yeah, I think the platform will change. But as

far as like, when you think of like television, you know, I

think the technologies are changing. But I think you know,

interview I think that the format will change a little bit,

but I don't necessarily think of like when we think of TV, you

know, in a box, I guess it's, you know, hard to explain it,

what were the same, I think it would go to more streaming

content. But I don't think that will ever entirely go away. I

think people will always kind of want their hour of Evening News.

Maybe not. It may not be as big of a market. So I think you

know, there's the more mixed model revenues and, you know,

digital production along with you know, CNN may be a streaming

service at one time. Not that there's talk about that I'm just

kind of throwing ideas out, but I do think, yeah, I think I

think it will change but not I don't think it like television

news will ever completely go away.

Okay. Is there anything else you can think of

or

another I one other challenge of the pandemic

is, you know, it's been very hard to get to the core of the

story because it's very hard to find hospitals where you can go

in, you know, for safety reasons, and a lot of different

A lot of different factors. I mean, some of them weren't

allowed to have news media. And so I think, actually, you know,

one of the other biggest challenges is just been trying

to see the, you know, the people that have been affected by

Coronavirus, the worst getting being able to see that firsthand

as much as we would like to.

So, thank you so much for taking the time to

speak to me today. Um, your interviews actually been very

enlightening and has actually very helped, like contribute to

my project that I'm doing on. And I'm really excited to be

able to hear your take on like the projects in your industry,

and then it's time in the age of COVID.

Great. Well, I'm so happy you reached out

please feel free to follow up with any questions or anything

that you may need. I'm more than happy to help.

Thank you so much, right. So take care