Lexi Interview, November 15, 2020

I just want to start beforehand by saying that Today is November 15, 2020. We are doing this interview over their story. My name is Bailey Murray and I am interviewing Alexandria. Do I have your consent to proceed with the recording?

Yes.

Okay, so let us get started with something simple. Can you tell me your name and your age?

So my name is Lexi. I'm going to for privacy reasons, I'm going to keep my last name to myself, but I am 29 just turned in September. And yeah.

Awesome. Congratulations. You're old now.

I am.

So as you kno, this study is sort of looking into LGBT issues, specifically bi, pan, and asexual one. So would you be comfortable sharing with me how you identifies your sexuality in regard to the spectrum?

L: Oh, yeah. Well, oh, I do apologize. But I identify as pansexual. Um, however, if I hit somebody who's a little bit on the older side, or doesn't pay attention to certain things regarding like, Internet, no even internet culture, but just like, it's something I see a lot on the internet. So it's just kind of what I associate with cause I don't really with everything going on, I don't go outside. So it's if I run into somebody who's a little bit older and may not know the nuances of you know, identifications like that, or identities like that, I just say bisexual because it's the concept still stands, if that makes sense.

Yeah, that makes total sense. And so I guess since we're doing an oral history, can you in your own words describe bisexuality to me?

So bisexuality is the identity that’s the gay preference of…well, okay, so here's my thing, my views on bisexuality, pansexuality. And all that jazz. If it's under, if it's a letter under the LGBTQ plus, you're technically part of, I just call it the umbrella, the gay umbrella, because you're part of the community as a whole. And it's just a fun like somebody like, allows you to go I'm gay. And it's like that, to me, that's still it. Yeah. That still counts as the identifier because they're gendered. Or can be gendered. But I've jokingly told people like I'm gay, and they're like, aren’t you bi? I'm still under the fucking pardon my French I'm still under the umbrella. I still count. I'm still gay. It doesn't…because I've seen a lot of so what happens is, I for me on my end, and a lot of the community that I hang out with, because I'm from Chicago, so a lot of times the community just kind of it both has its drama, and it melts together. So you get a lot of older gays who are just really anything goes. Um, so as far as like, identification goes you’ll be like “I’m Bi” Okay, you're gay Yeah, I'd like that just instantly, like, you don't we don't need the specifics. We just know you belong to the family, if that makes sense.

So I guess in the same vein, I know a lot of people have trouble differentiating between bisexual and pansexual. So if you were trying to explain to a person who isn't a part of the community, what the difference is, what would you say to them?

So one of the big things nowadays, because people are really just nonchalant about everything, which is great. They kind of overlap with each other, if that makes sense. Um pansexual a lot of times is used when people mean Allo sexual, which is you just don't give a crap about somebody’s identification. But people will use it in lieu of Allo because it's one of those more obscure terms that not everyone uses. So some people will be like, I'm pan but I'm also so for you have Oh, I'm forgetting what I'm trying to say. So you have like pansexual but then you'll have somebody who is aromatic or like something so you could be like pan and aro not everyone does that secondary identifier like I don't because for me it's just I'm very nonchalant as a person so when somebody asks me to specify I'm just I'm pan that's it. That's all it's as far as I go. So it's like well, some people do and I go and I respect that but for me personally you don't have to because I just don't on my end for me I don't care you know, I'm any pronouns go any whatever. I've been on the internet for so long that I've been in here so long that I'm from a time where girls didn't exist on the internet. Everyone was a guy you'd always use the he him pronouns, you know, so it's, it's for me, it's just not that big of a deal. But I'm so 1,000% down for respecting other people. So the difference between because I apologize in advance, I ramble. The difference between the two. Um, nowadays, it does interact with each other, if that makes sense. But some people choose to be more specific. So bisexual is the old fashioned term for it is you love somebody. You like men and you like women, whether or not that women is you know, so you like man upi like women, the man aspect quote unquote could be trans the women aspect quote unquote could also be trans they could be gender neutral. Um, it's but the notion is bisexual was the old school term for like I like many women you like both you don't have a preference over men, you don't have a preference over women, some bi’s prefer women some bi’s prefer men. Pansexual is more of you love somebody, regardless of their gender and orientation. So I could be in love with somebody who is like, asexual and they just don't have any, you know, like they don't, you know, being asexual has a lot of it, the nuances of asexuality or I have rent to raise, and we're totally whatever and like, I'll come and be like, yeah, I drew this thing. And I'm, like, you know, really like, hey, let's talk about sex. And they're just like, I have one friend who's just doesn't like, he's like, I'm not, but I will have the conversation with you. And I'm like, dope, let's go for it. You know, so are, you know, so I say things, and then I'll be like, I'm not sure because I have friends who are asexual, and I'm still myself personally trying to get that because I'll walk in with something and then they'll be like, I don't like Ah, right. pansexual people can be really, really, really active compared to like, somebody who's not. So when you walk in, you're like, I'm excited to talk about sex. And they're just like, thumbs up. I'm proud of you. Like, my friends are just really, like, I have never been used for an old show things do and then he'll be like, um, I'm like, Ah, okay, right. Horny conversations happen with a different friend. I got it. I love you. You know, no, I gotta leave them alone.

That juxtaposition of pansexuality and asexuality where the pan person is very effervescent when it comes to sex and just they’re oozing sexuality, as opposed to an asexual person who you know, is, I guess, not more reserved, but quieter about it. Yeah.

There's a lot of I know that the study is about bi, pan, and Ace, but there's a lot of weird little nuance and overlaps on things. Where hilariously, as long as one of the big things is bi erasure, and I'm so over it, but minus that for the most part, every person I've ever met has been pretty, pretty big on like, just, we're just cohesive. It's one cohesive community, at least here. I know, in some places, it's not because of how it's developed and whatever. Like, if you go to like California or Chicago, or like New York with their gay scene is huge. Like ridiculously large, but if you go somewhere in the south, you know, it might be the one little club on the corner, you only go there after 10 o'clock, because the hicks are gonna, like, shoot you later, you know? So it just depends.

As a southerner I can agree to that, but uh, my next question is, um, so how do you I know, you sort of touched on earlier, but how do you view your personal gender in regards to the gender spectrum? Are you, you know, strictly I'm a female, but I don't care what you call me or is it, you know, I'm a little bit gender fluid, and that's why I'm okay with being called whatever.

So, mentally, so mentally, I am gender fluid physically. God no. I, you can't see me because I don't have a camera. But I am on the curvier side, to the point where I really couldn't hide it if I wanted to. And I've never really made an attempt to hide it. I'm like, I wear low cut shirts. And like, I've got different kinds of bras for my mood, whatever. And like, you know, I've got I prefer to wear unisex shirts because growing up I had what was quote unquote, called the tomboy phase. So I had a lot of like, big baggy clothes and messy hair and like the big big shirts, and I'm tomboy, I'm a dude, but I'm not bla bla bla. And so it translated as an adult into me just kind of dressing however, I am a woman, I don't, you know, I would, I'm gonna assume that the term that would apply to me is people have said that I'm Cis, I don't really care to identify myself as anything really. I mean, so mentally, I'm gender fluid. But, you know, like people say like, like I said, growing up on the internet, and being as old as I am. And having been part of that generation that kind of grew up with the evolution of the internet. There was a time where you weren't a woman on that you everyone was a guy. So I used to back in the day before…I mean it’s always been cesspool, but back in the day before, it was like the actual cesspool that it is, if you're on 4chan, everybody was just a dude. There was no exception to the rule. You showed up. You showed your guy they'd be like, great, nobody cares. You're just part of the crowd. So it's like everybody was just a dude, you just defaulted immediately. If you were a woman they didn't care, it was like whatever. So anytime you went on any place you were just a guy automatically. And as I got older, some places would be like, well, I could tell your girl by the way type and it was just like, I didn't know that was a thing. But you know, it was like, basically like the weeaboo anime talk and like that would give me away is like, the smiley faces. They'd be like, Oh, I can tell you’re a girl because we were typing. I was like, I've been bad. I've been found out and I have to stop because I'm getting DMS and I don't want that. So it's personally that I've gotten off the rails, I do apologize. But first identity wise, it's very, um, I just, you know, I don't care pronoun wise. Lexi is a nickname that I chose in college because my nickname growing up Alex, there was always 10 of us. Because for some reason, all the millennials born between like 95, and 85, are all named Alex. So in high school and somebody go, Hey, Alex, and five people turn around, it's like, I need to know who I am. Because that's annoying.

Okay, yeah. And, like, this is an oral history. So going off the rails, that just gives us more of like a fuller picture. So it's perfect. I love it. Um, I want to just say, only share what you're comfortable sharing, because the next questions are a little bit about your background to get to know you a little bit better. But if you aren't comfortable sharing names, feel free to change them. Or you know, omitting stories. Just, I want to put that out there before we start. Um, my next question is, just tell me a little bit about your parents and how close you guys were as a family growing up.

So I actually came from a not together household, my mom and my dad were never married. Or together, they were together briefly. And so I was raised by one parent. There was obviously, as with half of the situation's I'm learning there was a custody battle, and I ended up living with my parents. So one of the big things is, I'm very lucky to live in a family that when I came out to my grandmother and my dad, and then it was kind of like a shrug, like, Oh, yeah, cool, you know, it's whatever, like, it was just there was no change. Nothing happened. My grandmother then would ask me, if I'm seeing anybody, but then she'd like, you know, because families a little more conservative, old fashioned, like, oh, is there a guy in your life? And my grandma would mix up ago? Or is there a girl or special lady in your life? And I always thought that was really cute. But um, so what happened was, um, I would so…sorry, I have ADD. So give me a second. I do apologize. So growing up, I would, because it's so early 90s, mid 90s, late 2000s, early 2000s. Were a weird time to describe somebody who, because I don't how old are you?

Three just turned 23.

Okay, so sorry. I mean, interrupt you, I didn't mean to like maybe ask you the question. So when you're older, there hits a point weirdly enough, where when you're older, some things are just lost on a nuance level, there's an experience to being almost 10 years older than the somebody else. We're talking to an example. I was in my friend stream, a lot of them are younger. And I made the joke about lemon party. Well, lemon party is an old shock website, which I know somebody in your audience listening is going to go I can't believe you said that. But like, it's one of those old shock websites where you send it to people and you do it for fun and giggles because you know, teenagers, ooh, gross. It's, you know, odd, the subject is gross, whatever. And now, as an adult, it's just one of those weird stupid memories of playing games on but it's like when you're older, it's like figuring out everything in the 90s was a lot weirder than it is now. So growing up, I always pick girl characters. I want to play things like Tomb Raider, I always wanted to, like, be the girl character, I would get upset if I wasn't because there was something about the character that I wasn't entirely sure what it was, but I liked it, you know. And, you know, as time went on, it was I think, there was a lot of not exploring things because of just what was going on personally with my life. And like, I was always just like, I have anxiety, and I have depression and like, those things manifest in kids when they're really young. So if you don't know what it is, you don't really know how to fix it. So I had anxiety for a very long time. So there was a lot of, I suppose you could say missed opportunities that kind of I picked up on later. One of them being my sexuality and figuring out that there was something that wasn't just like my concept of gay and straight, kind of existed for a long time, because, like I said, I grew up and I'm lucky. I'm very blessed to have a family that's kind of open minded. I'm not the only gay cousin, and the one cousin that I did have growing up is a lot older than me. So there's a generation there's a big generational gap. He is as old as my parents, he's their cousin kind of thing. But you know, he's my cousin also because that's how our family works. Um, but what happened was, so my concept of gay and straight were just, you know, my cousin's gay and my dad is straight and you know, whatever and there is no in between. And then one day I was like, But wait, but could there because I don't fit on the spectrum of either or, and so did some research, whatever, early days of the internet discovered bisexuality was a thing. And in high school, I kind of coined that down. friend asked me out on a date. I was like, maybe I like, girls, I do like girls, but not this particular girl. Um, and there was this thing where she was like, Well, you can't be you have to pick one or the other. And she yelled at me in public and like, you know, made me really ashamed. But then I was like, later Oh, initially, I was like, ashamed of it. And I was like, okay, maybe I do have to pick a side. But then I was talking to a different friend. I was like, No, you know, eff you. I don't have to, that's my, you know, I am a punk through and through. And so I don't like to follow the rules. And so I was like, Well, if me not being just straight up lesbian or straight up straight is not following the rules, then fuck it, I am bi and then I found out later I was like, I'm not special. There's, there's millions of us. Billions, possibly. So but that was the high school journey of once I kind of set it down and then turned into just getting out of the mindset. A lot of me discovering myself was like getting over my own self hate. You know, I used to have self loathing capabilities and just hated myself and what I was, and, you know, I was like, maybe I'm, maybe I'm just straight up gay. Maybe I'm just straight up straight. And I'm confused. I hated Glee. I don't I saw like it. There was an incident in my high school where a lot of people were, quote, unquote, coming out, but then they ended up like, you can be bi curious. That's the thing. You can be bi curious. Totally thousand percent. Absolutely. If you don't know, go for it, the journey if you're not, no big deal. But there was a trend in my high school where because Glee was a thing. And a lot of the characters were open. And so some people would just be like, my school was very full of people who were like, the trends like girls would have two cell phones a blackberry because it was the popular thing to have. And then they have like an iPhone, because it's daddy's money. And you know, I can do whatever I want with it. So, um, there were a lot of people who, quote unquote, came out and then they were like, Oh, no, no, I was just doing it because so and so did it or like, it was a joke, or like, they would just be like, Oh, it's like, clean. I'm gay today, blah, blah. And I'm like, but that's because I think one of the characters is bi or whatever. And it was always frustrating because if I came out to people, they'd be like, you're just doing it because Glee’s popular, I'm like, No, I've always been like this. Shut up. Like even my so there was an incident where I came out, and I just didn't really come out to my mom, I just kind of was and she knew. And so she has WASP friends, which is white, Anglo Saxon, Protestant, conservative friends, who are very stereotypical big house five kids, you know, we all go to church on Sundays kind of thing. And they were very much more restrictive than like my mom's family household setting. So I came out to somebody, and then the mom was like, well, I'm concerned, because now my daughter hangs out a lot with her friend. And I'm like, one, if your daughter is it’s terrible of you, and B, and I even said this to my mom, I was like, maybe she just likes hanging out with that friend, because when you're a kid or teenager, you're developing emotionally, you find that one person that you just like being around, because you don't have to worry about learning new things about each other, you just click and that's it. That's like, that's that one friend that you hang out with. And like a lot of people did that when they're growing up, they'd have that want to hang out with because you felt comfortable with them, you were whatever. And that's what this friend was to mom's friend's daughter. And so then it turned into Well, don't say anything around people don't tell anybody because, you know, then it turned into a problem on our end of where we'll I don't want you over because your kids can influence my kid kind of thing. And it was just like that they only happen once. And I kind of kept it to myself and thereafter. And I've reconnected with the kids since and they're all they all know that I'm like, not straight. So they're nobody cares. That's the biggest thing. At the end of the day. Nobody gave a crap. But it was just the growing up nuance of like, Oh, he's the kind of people you hang out with. Almost like they're my friends. I've known them forever, blah, blah, blah. I'm just like, Okay, well, they're annoying. I'm over it. But I also kind of had a really big attitude growing up. So I was very big on the rebel stage of Shut up. You're not my mom, you know, that kind of stuff. So yeah, growing up was a big, just whatever. And there was a huge instance, there's a story that I can actually tell. Which, you know, I mean, I've gotten over it now. But at the time, it was just, um, it was a lot. Sorry, give me one second. Somebody needed a backpack. Sorry. So what happened was, I came out to somebody in my family. And so like I said, My family's very conservative. Unfortunately, several people have voted for Trump this round as well as last round. Because that's just how the family is, which is…socially they're very open for like, being gay and like, whatever. And like a lot of people in my family know that I'm a punk. And you know, it's, you know, eff the authority figures in general kind of thing is my big is my big shtick, but voting like socio economic, whatever, they're all conservative. So, well, my family members is a big Republican. And I came out to him, and we were in the car. And I thought, well, this is, you know, we were in the car. I was living out west, and I thought it was the perfect opportunity, because it was just quiet, like, whatever. And I thought, well, he needs to know, because if he's gonna be seeing me, because I lived out there, and I come over with somebody, it's one of those things where I just want to spring it on him, because, you know, I know they were coming out to the rest of my family was so easy, and like, whatever it was just like, okay, don't have to worry. And then so what happened was, I came out to this, this, this family member, and we were in the car. And it was a very big, awkward pause. And I thought to myself, Ah, crap, I found the one I probably should have done this too. And his response was, “Why are you telling me this, I don't care.” And it wasn't a Oh, I don't care, whatever. It was a very dismissive I don't care. Um, and it was just, it hurt. It really hurt. Like, I felt ashamed. I had felt like I did when my friend yelled at me in high school, I felt ashamed that I had said anything. And the basic response was the stereotypical, like, you know, oh, well, as long as you don't push your…what’s the words he used, as long as you don't, quote unquote, push your agenda on me. That's what was said. And my immediate thought was, I'm not gonna it's not a group that you can be recruited to, just, but after the fact, I was like, like, it was less of upsetting and more of just like God, what a close minded individual that I unfortunately sure blood with, like, holy cow, like, the initial thoughts were hurt and pain, and it's shame and whatever. And then later on, I was like, so Okay, this particular family member is kind of an idiot. And, you know, that's how it goes. So it hurt. It sucked. I got over it. Which, you know, and I'm not, that's just some people don't, and that's okay. But I was very quickly just like, yeah, whatever, I don't give a shit anymore. I don't, pardon my French. I don't care anymore. Because like I could do and my opinions of this particular family member just when they come over it's like, I'm not sober.

That's kind of open the door for several of questions. So we will start with one that I Eeny meeny, miney, moe’d. So you said you started your journey around High School. And I was just curious if your high school had any LGBT resources that someone who was curious or questioning could go to, or at the very least an LGBT friendly counselor that they could talk to was there anything like that?

No. So my high school was so I went to high school in between 2006-2010 and I would argue that that was kind of the start of the modern conversation on being open. So I was met with a lot of stereotypes. I was met with a lot of people not understanding how it works less so than they do now. A lot of people asking me if it meant that I had a girlfriend and a boyfriend, because polyamorous wasn't a word that was on people's minds. And even now it's still not a thing like also the questions about that people say and I'm like, No, no, that's it. That's a separate thing. And they’ll say, like “it is?” Oh, yeah, that's its own thing. Like, but it's not, you know, you can be poly and bi but they're not, you know, they're not replacement words for each other. So, high school was a time a lot of the kids could be described as closed minded in the sense that like the stereotypes were high. A lot of upper middle class kids saying like, a lot of racial jokes, a lot of sexist jokes, a lot of gay jokes, like Oh, are you uh, you know, like, they use all kinds of slurs and stuff. One of the big instances of bullying for me was the friend that I went on a date with I rejected their advances because I just was I was just interested in being friends I realized that it was just no no, I can really, really appreciate you and love you, but I don't have to be in love with you like that was something that I kind of picked up are really early in life. And so this friend did not, or appreciate it. So what ended up happening was, she did this rumor mill that we were dating. And she would just be very adamant on it. And I didn't know that until some guy said something to me. And I was like, we're not dating, I don't even see them that often. Like, I don't, I see them, like maybe once in the morning and once at night, and it turned into the point where they're getting like jealous and whatever. And there was an incident where they were just really upset. And they sent me this letter in class. And like, they were like, Oh, so and so wanted me to hand this to you. Because you know, it’s high school you send each other, weird passive aggressive notes or whatever, or like, you know, you'll have somebody standing outside and they're like, Oh, so and so wanted me to give this to you. Yeah, it's, it's a very high school thing. So and then ended up, we ended up later down the road, kind of reconciling, not quite 1,000%. Because it was just awkward. I'm very much like, I'm just gonna walk away, because my brain just goes awkward anxiety can't handle it. We're just working on neutral terms right now. Because I don't have the maturity to come back and have that conversation now. Which, you know, I will, down the line, I don't really talk to people from high school anymore. So it's like, yeah, you know, but yeah, so that was one of the big things that people just had, like an issue with was like, I had a friend who came out to me because the environment, high school is very homophobic. People were a closet people left and right. Not really, like we had one kid in our school who was very stereotypically gay, like, very stereotypically, like, the flamboyant gay guy, whatever, etc, etc. And he was acceptable, if that makes sense, because he fit the stereotype that they wanted. He was the gay friend who went shopping and was really flamboyant. And this kid sounded like Fred and like, you know, he had like, the long hair, and he was a feminist and just really, like, “we’re doing it girl” like with the snaps and stuff. And so it was like, I've known people like him growing up, so I didn't even consider that. But then as I went on, it was like, they like him because he fits a stereotype. And that's what they're willing to accept. And if we go outside the stereotype, you're weird, and they make fun of you and like, so people found out about me, because of a friend who asked who was telling people things and like, I never came out because I didn't see it was that big of a deal. And people would be like, Oh, you're gay. Bla bla bla, don't look at me over changing and it you know, and then that turned into me just being really mean, because it was like, “why would I look at you? Seriously, honestly, you're dumb. I get like, Don't flatter yourself.” It was a lot of my, my mean attitude of being really good at insults came developed in high school when I had to think on my feet because there were a lot of people who like, “Oh my god, you're like, you know,” pardon the term like,” Oh my god, you're a faggot.” And I'm like, “Yeah, the biggest one you've ever met, what do I do about it? Want to fight me will go.” you know, like, or something stupid, or like, they'd be like, “Oh, you're looking at me. You must be attracted.” And I'm like, “No, I'm staring at you because you look like an idiot.” Like, or you just happened to be in my line of sight. And it's unfortunate. Please turn around, you know, so like, stupid, stupid little things. I really, I don't like high school and like my reunion got postponed because of COVID thank God I was gonna show up and just be like, “hey, yeah, here because I there was food offered. That's the only reason why I really showed up and maybe one friend that I lost contact with because I can't find their Facebook.” So it was like I know you. But I don't know you because you got married. I don't know. I've seen you, but I can't find you like it was one of those little dumb things. So yeah, so high school wasn't a good time. We had an LGBT club at the end, like right at the end. And they did okay. There was this commercial, growing up, hated it with a passion. It was a Hilary Duff commercial. Where she…there was the girls were like, “oh, how about this top? Oh, that's so gay.” And Hillary Duff would come on and go, “Hey, don't say that. It's offensive.” Oh, blah. Well, for one, it at least from my understanding, because again, I hang out a lot of older gays. So their notion of like, like, the gay community changes depending on how old the crowd is. And as you go younger it becomes a little bit more open in a different sense. But the older crowd would just take the insults and run with them. So that's why you see a lot of older gay, so like, a really good example, as well in belly, the drag queen, you know, and a lot of his videos, he'll just say the F slur, and it's not that big of a deal. And it's like a lot of older gays that I know are like that, or they tend to take that term and reclaim it kind of thing, or it's like, you know, casual conversation at some point, you become immune to it. Um, and I know a lot of people who are younger and within my age group aren't comfortable with it. And I respect that, you know, I don't personally care if you say to me, as long as you're part of the group, or not group, but like, um, if you fall into this, if you fall into the umbrella, if you're straight, I'm gonna have a word with you. There's gonna be big words. If you're like, “oh, whatever you’re such a faggot” I'm like, “Ah, you can't. You don't get to do that. That's Not you're not allowed, you know?” That that's my big. I'm very much the big sister, if that makes sense of like, when people are like, oh, whatever, I feel like I'll be your mother gay we’ll collect you and make you feel comfortable and love you and…I had a friend and some group. I do a lot of art. And so I was in our group for people who did like not safe work stuff, because I, I'm very open minded. If somebody invites me something that I'm not into it, I'll still join, because I want to learn and I want to meet the people. And sometimes somebody can draw something that you don't agree with, or you're not into it, or it's just not your style. And…but people are chill. And so you're like, Hey, you know what? I won't, I'll mute all the channels that will be part of the discussion, because you guys are all great. And somebody runs in going, this new anime came out, or this new show came out and you're like, yeah, my people, but I really, but I, you know. But so, like, I had a friend who was going through gender dysphoria. They were trans and I bought her bra because she was like, “I'm ugly, blah, blah.” I'm like, “No, no, every woman has a good bra.” And so I bought her a bra. Because she was, you know, she had a lot of dysphoria. And she was just very like, “Oh, I'm not, I'm not really a woman. I'm a man with long hair.” And I was like, “No, no, you're a woman, you're a trans woman, and you're beautiful. And I'm going to buy you a bra.” Now sometimes she posts up, like, “Look at this cute bra I got from so and so.” And I'm like, that's me. I'm so glad you love it. I'm glad that you like, it was the gateway of comfort for this person. But that nature of just being the mom and like no love yourself came from being bullied in high school because people were like, you can't be both and like the hell I can't, I'm gonna I'm gonna I don't care if there's no term for it, I'm just gonna go for it. Because I don't like fitting labels. And like, there's a label for everything. But you know, a lot of who I am now in the community, and I still I still slip up on occasion. And there's things that were misconceptions of, you know, I'm a little older. So I had to grow up and figure out all the weird old bullshit, like a lot of Gen Z-ers have this, like I was I was at a protest with somebody. And we were talking about, like, how the turnout for these protests are impressive, because this is what we wanted to do 10 years ago, but now the next generation is picking it up and rolling with it. And it's like, that's the fire got lit of like, this is what we want to do. But we're just so beaten down and apathetic. And like there's a whole there's a weird generational gap where the kids are just like, yeah, we'll do it tomorrow. Because my mental health wasn't a joke. It was you just usually easy. And so that's what we embody kind of thing. And it's we're not we're just we have depression, you know, so, but the same thing with the gay community of like, you know, it was that whole Oh, well, you’re gay blah blah blah. It's like, Well, yeah, you know, 10 years ago, that was kind of a deal nowadays. Like, okay, cool, dope, good. No, you know, like, you just kind of, you know, peace sign, whatever, go for it. So, but a lot of who I am now, it's just, it's all from high school and people just being assholes and…or jerks. I'm so sorry. I keep swearing in your project.

It’s okay, it is the raw emotion of it that, you know, it's just coming out.

Dear Bailey's teacher, I could swear a lot more, but I won't, because I know how to be a good egg. So yeah, anyway, we can roll Next question. But the point is, is that my school is not LGBT friendly. There was that gay commercial of don't say gay and it sparked an event with we had a very small LGBT club. And, um, they would do things like meetings, whatever. But like, I didn't want to join because again, I'm, you know, my, my rebel phase was full on in high school, if I don't want to talk to anyone, I don't want to be part of the cool kids. I don't want part of the club, whatever. There's a club for it's not cool. You know, like, so I wouldn't show up to the club. But I was like, I knew a lot of kids who are in the club. And we were all like, we'd see each other outside of school, but like, I just didn't want to participate in the group activity of whatever, because I checked out in high school, I didn't want to bother like, I was like, you guys can absolutely get this conversation started. But as of sophomore year, I checked out and I just…anything socialized in the school. The second I'm done, I'm out, I don't want to be here. I don't want to talk to anybody. I don't want to see anybody. Facebook was kind of gaining traction at that point. And so a lot of people will be like, you're not friends with me on Facebook? I'm like, I see you every day. I see you every day for six hours. I don't need to be friends with you on Facebook. And so I'm like, I told people I go “when I leave, and I'm not friends with you don't get upset. I want the space to happen. I want the time to proceed. I want that old fashioned feeling of I haven't seen you in 10 years. And then I see you again 10 years later, it's like, oh my god, you looks so different.” You know, I like that. I don't really use my Facebook that often. Um, you know, so it's happened chance that we found each other on that motion, because I'm really not on my Facebook, but it was like, yeah, so and so. You know, I was like, yeah, I'll do it. Because it's like, I'm always here for having conversations about the community. But yeah, high school was very not friendly and like, I've seen people post on the local webs…the local Facebook groups that they're a lot more open now because the kids have changed. My school is known for being the rowdy bunch. We had several incidences including gluing a sex toy to our mascot out in the front, or digging up somebody’s…Yeah. Digging up somebody's astroturf or we had kids get like, the last Southside Southside Irish parade that they ever had. So, Chicago has been called the Celtic Irish parade they used to have in a specific neighborhood, they moved it, because it got so out of hand. And last one they ever held, we had at least two students not come back because they had gotten drunk and been arrested and one of them got punched by a cop. And so we were like, “Where's…?” Somebody else was like, “they weren’t coming to class” like, Oh, the dumbass like, what did he do? Just like, he got drunk at the, at the Southside Irish parade. I'm like, “okay, that's what everybody did.” No, but they got drunk and then tried to pick a fight with a cop, and I’m like “well did they get their ass kicked?” They're like, “yeah,” I go, “well, that that's, you know what? You bit off, you went up to the guy and pushed them, you're gonna get punched in the face.” So there was like, Well, now we have the suspend you I think the kid getting suspended for like, a month or something because they were like, over the they were like, “everyone caught over Celtic Irish Parade, you're getting suspended, blah, blah, because you were underage drinking whatever.” And it was like my school used to do this thing where they would if they saw that they had fake accounts, where they would spy on you and like, absolutely not kosher now. But they would spy on you. And they saw a red cup. They'd be like, well, you're drinking over the weekend suspended. And I'm like, but people just have those at their party. That's a common thing to have. Like we couldn't there was a year where they submitted photos for the yearbook. And they're like, we can't use these because they're copyrighted to Facebook. And I was like, I'm pretty sure you can. That's not how copyright law works.

I just drink out of red solo cups because they're cheaper to buy.

Yeah, exactly. Like, every family party has red solo cups, because that's just the norms are blue solo cups, but you don't really see them. And it's like, you're going to a family party. Everybody has a red solo cup, because we're not doing dishes later.

Okay so, we're gonna get into I guess, the meat and bones section like the more particular questions. The first one I have is less story and more just an example you can give me? Are you still there by the way? Okay, there you are. Sorry. No, the picture just changed in the background. So I didn't know something happened. But, um, in your experience, whether it's online or in person, it doesn't have to have been directed at you. But I know you say you were online for…have been online forever. So you must have seen some exchanges. Can you give me just we'll get into stories later. But just examples of slurs that you might see thrown towards a bisexual or pansexual person, even if it's just, you know, meant to come off as a joke.

It so there's… See I gotta think about it. There's slurs for Okay, so one big example. And this is like old and I'll mention 4chan because that's where it's, that's where the hit place was to be back in 2006. It was the big like, taboo and uncensored internet board. And you know, and nowadays, it's always been a cesspool of sorts. But nowadays, it's like a genuine cesspool of like, I went back there one time, and I was like, ah, this is not the place I remember it used to be. I just used to come in here for dumb anime memes. And now it's like, well, we all know how social how everything's happening now. And I'm just like, I'm gonna leave goodbye before I get put on a list for showing up. Sorry, guys wrong house. But there's this old, very old 4chan meme. That was usually the picture that most people saw was like Stalin. It's Stalin writing his diary. And it says, “Dear Diary, today, OP was a faggot.” And that's the old meme of, they'd use it if the original poster was being an idiot. So it was like “Dear Diary, Today OP was a moron, like this idiot sandwich, whatever.” But like, one of the ways they refer to the users was if you were if you were an old Fag or, new fag. Newfags were people new to the website, and old fag was somebody who had been on the internet forever. And it was used as a very nonchalant, it's kind of in the whole use case, stupid conversation of like, they would just use it in reference to, you know, “Oldfags here. Hey, what's up? I haven't seen you in forever!” you know, it's like, oh, this kid's newfag blah blah blah that was just very exclusive to 4chan. You used to see it bleed out. And it would, you'd see it in places where somebody would say it, and you'd be like, I have an exact idea of what kind of person you are. Because you'll go one of two ways. for that particular conversation. You'll either be the person on the internet who's been there forever, you're very nonchalant, whatever, or you end up like the kids who were like, yeah, you know, Nazi stuff. You know, it's like, whatever. So it was like, one half of it's like, you know, we're just dumb asses on the internet, having a good time. And the other half took the joke too seriously. And now it's like, well, we were joking, but now you've taken the joke, an extra step. And it's no longer fun and we're all going to step back, because you've ruined everything. But um, so that would be a really prime example of like, “dear diary today OP was a faggot,” like that was just really common to see. And like nobody thought of anything. And like, even after the fact that I came out and like on the internet, 10 years ago, even you'd still see it, like, I still have one of those saved somewhere. Because it's just one of those things where you find it and you're just like, you think of just, it's I just have it for having at this point, because I've had the picture saved, the file is so old, that at this point, it's like, this is a fossil, a relic of a time, and we're just gonna leave it there because it can't, I don't have the heart to delete it. And I know, it's not that big of a deal. But it's like, I remember when I saved this in high school, and I've used this exact same photo every single time since and I'm like, you know what, it's just the lives here. Now it lives here, rent free, we're just gonna leave it, it's not that big of a deal. No one's ever gonna see it, whatever. You know, like you'll find, it's just but that would be a really good example of just like in that was as a whole, you know, Fag has its own term phrase of just meaning any gay person and mostly toward gay men. For bisexual, and pan people. There's less slurs and more conversation. So like, you're not a real gay, you're a traitor, I've seen that one come up, sometimes you're like, you're not like, I don't understand how that one works out, because we're not looking. It's we're not like a group of people who need loyalty. We're just like, straight person. That's it. That's literally it. Like, there's no, there's a community for it. Because, you know, it'd be there for there was a time where you, you needed to have a community to know that there were others. And nowadays, it's just you know, Boystown, downtown, whatever, it's just part of the landscape, if that makes sense. It's like, nobody really bats an eye like they used to, and some people do and whatever. But, you know, but just term wise, for Bi pan ace people, it's, well, he will get this I feel like Ace and trans people get the short end of the stick, because it's one of those things where I'm Ace people, people like, What the fuck are you then, like, they’ll have this really rude conversation of like, you don't get the concept, instead of just being open minded to it to be like, what what do you mean? Like, you know, whatever, blah, blah, and it's like, I've seen people get really, really defensive about it. But then I've also seen people get really, like, just weird about it, like, you know, and same thing with trans people to like,well you’re a guy but you’re a girl like, I don't get it. And it's like, sometimes, you know, it is it's hard to explain. Really, where it's been some examples are all seen, and it's hard to explain. Because in the moment, you feel that emotion, you kind of lose it as time goes by, but it's like, you know, a lot of my Ace friends and a lot of my trans friends and just, they've gotten so much crap, because people don't really get the sexuality sometimes, or they'll be like, well, then what are you boba? Oh, you're this or whatever. And then like, the mindset comes in down to the like, the pan gay people, bisexual people where it's like, oh, you're bi, oh, you’re pan, or you can't decide, well, you're a traitor, or you're not really gay, but a lot. It's like, No, but I am. I am..in my head, I have more options than you. That's where I'm going with this. Like, I don't my barn door swings both ways. Walk into the house with the boots on, you know, so it's like, it's less slurs, and more of the conversation is just like, people. It's a lot of older people. I'm thinking about in hindsight, a lot of older people where they're just kind of like, I don't get it. And either they're willing to learn, or they're just going to be really rude about it. And most of the people I've met are really, really big on it. And some, like I said, some of that. So a lot of times in the older community they get, sometimes they get like, Well, you can't be Bi, Bi people don't really exist about what it's like, “we do. We're here. We've always been here. It doesn't change, you know, so.”

So my next question is sort of gender in regard to your sexuality. So do you personally think that your gender identification, not yours in particular, but just a person's gender identification affects how people view their sexuality in regards to either you know, accepting or erasing them? So for example, if a cisgender woman says she's bi, would people be more likely to be like, Oh, she just really wants to have a threesome? She's totally cool. She's just, you know, I can now sleep with two girls at once. Or do you think is it more nuanced than that?

It's nuanced in the sense that it depends on the person. So the example you gave is a fantastic example because people…there so there's an episode of Big Mouth that Twitter had a fun time with where everyone assumed she was like the horny person, bla bla bla, there's this character that came out as, like, I think she's pan, or is she bi? I can't remember the character what the character is, I think she's bi so the characters by and everybody just assume she's the horny one. And, you know, reality. She's just very open. Because, you know, she's hit that point where it's like, let's have this conversation about things because, you know, I know I am so comfortable with my identity, blah, blah. But everyone else here is horny, and one of the kids even says, “Oh, I bet she sleeps around” and it's like that is the stereotype that comes with being bisexual. People assume that you're open and sleazy, whatever. And like, some of my straight friends over the years have absolutely had that mindset. I just called out a friend for…he used to send me like girls who he thought were cute on the internet. And I would play along because we were just dumb, younger teenagers or, you know, 20 year olds, but they hit a point where I posted something on Facebook, and I'm on the heavier side, I don't have a camera, but I'm on the heavier side, I have bigger boobs, whatever. And so I made some joke about, like, a bra or whatever. Um, and he was like, Oh, yeah, it was a big blah blah blah and I'm like, No, and then he made another comment. And I was like, you know, you really put me in this spot in your mind, because I'm bi and I'm pretty sure that's where it come from. And I don't appreciate your call. I was like, You think because I'm bisexual, or pan that I am just a horny mess. But like, I'm like, I'm like, you know what I'm done with it. I'm sick of your weird, creepy DMs that are just really uncomfortable. And I'm so over it. But it's like, that's the stereotype of “Oh, she's just really open.” And Big Mouth, even though part of okay. A lot of the people I did a lot of the culture slash people slash whatever that I hated about Tumblr made it over to Twitter. So when that whole thing with the like, the Big Mouth thing came out, people were upset all the BI people were like, but that's how people see us like, this is stabbed, don't get rid of her. Because now we have a representation for all the times we were sick of your shit. Like, you know, and it's the same idea of people just assume that you're just, you know, just sleep around whatever she's bi and like, you know, she must have expectations of being whatever it's like. It's tiring.

Do you think that sort of changes if say, either a transgender woman or a cis male kind of comes out as Bi? Do you think the stereotype changes for them? Or is it the same as a cisgendered woman?

Oh, no, it's absolutely…One of the one of the big things and I see this a lot is people applauding men for being comfortable with themselves. And I agree, because the more we move towards it, the less we move towards the problem of I'm a bi man, they either get automatically categorized into being gay, or then seen as feminine, which is a weird, hate, hate the modern connection of something as feminine or gendered? Like some things are gendered Yes. And some languages are gendered because they're old languages. And you know, like, one of the biggest things is I hate with a passion, the biggest passion as a Mexican I hate the term Latinx. I won't use it. I refuse. I think it sounds as whitewashed as possible. It came from Tumblr when it showed up the first time I freaking hated it. And I hate every time now I see it on like the news and I just I see them like what caucasity is this like come on. Like it's just I'm so I hated it, then I hate it. Now. I have a friend who is Latine, that's the term that we use is Latine, it's still gender neutral, and fits within. So you have Latino, Latina, Latine. That's that's what we've just locally been using. And the goal is for me to just use the counseling conversations that people are aware that the word exists and that it is still friendly to the language and it doesn't sound like some, you know, not to be the stereotype of like some dumb girl on Tumblr who's never been out like “oh we’re gonna be Latinx now it's more of whatever.” It's like, shut up, Sarah, you're white. What do you know? But like, because that that happens a lot where there's somebody speaks for some other group and you're just like, stop speaking for me. I don't need to be spoken for. I will speak when I am ready. Like stop doing that. It's really annoying, but yeah, so can you I'm sorry, I got sidetracked. What was the question?

The question was just pretty much if the stereotype changes with gender so what a cis man, a bi cis men face mace stereotypes than like a cis woman or like a trans female, would she face different stereotypes as a bi or pansexual person.

Yes. So that”s where it was. Okay, thank you. Thank you for the re rail that the train is back on track. Yeah, so the whole toxic masculinity thing some guys will be like “oh I’m bi” and you know, some girls I saw a lot on Tumblr, would they fetishize them it's the same idea as if you're a girl. So one of the big problems is the male fetishzation then turns into he’s straight but he's bi and so we're gonna draw him drawing go making out with all these guys or whatever. And so they just kind of slowly just get slapped into the gate like they're not bi their then just automatically gay because some people can't handle the notion that men can be bi. And then if you're trans, there's this other level to it where, you know, somebody has to come to terms with the notion of somebody else being trans, which is a thing that I've noticed a lot of like, cis people will just be like the concept of it will just be like so you're a guy. Yes. But you're technically a woman. Yes. Physically. I have tits, mentally or not mentally, but like as me as a person, like, inside my head not ignoring my boobs. I am a man like, that's I am, I am a man in a woman's body. It's, you know, there's conversations about that. And so then the straight person has to come to terms with that. And then you throw in the whole, I can be trans and bi they're like, Whoa, hang on. That's a level that my brain couldn't handle. And then, you know, I've seen people just be like, I don't get it, but I support you. And I totally get it. But like, you know, for me, it's being part of the community. It's just like, Oh, don't Cool beans, you know, like, whatever I'll have some people just tell me I'm trans and I have a girlfriend, or like, I'll be like, male to female, but I have a girlfriend. Oh, so you're lesbian? Yeah, whatever. So. But if you're bi and you're trans, sometimes then it turns into this weird, like, they just don't. People have problem with transgenderism. They have like, their brain stops on it. Like they just can't grasp the concept of sometimes you were born in the wrong body, and it I don't have that gender dysphoria. So I can't speak. But I've dealt with enough trans people to know that the journey to finding yourself is not always a fun one. And so then you have this extra level of like, people just rudely not taking the time to know how that works. You know, and you already have the stereotype of being bisexual where people were like, Oh, well, she's sleazy, and then it turns into your trans like, oh, you're in this weird shit. Like no no no and then, but that's, that's the mindset that people have. So, being bi is you have songs like I Kissed a Girl and I Liked It. Where it's the fetishization of women as the playful sexy object, like the bi girl is the girl who's going to sleep with you because she has threesomes and foursomes and orgies whatever, because she's bi and that's where your brain goes with it. Because if you don't get the concept of it, or you're not open minded, that's where we go. And if you're trans, then it changes. And if you're a bi man, you might just be gay, because that's what people are going to put you. Because unfortunately, that's how a lot of people are.

That was actually a really good answer. But yeah, that covered everything. Oh, no, we are actually coming towards the end. I just have a few more, I guess, tying the thread together questions. For you personally. Um, do you personally believe that bi and pansexual people are marginalized within the community? And do you think it is equal to or less than the marginalization without the like, on the outside of the community, so among like straight people.

So I think, marginalization within and outside of the community, so outside of the community, we get lumped into that misunderstanding of not knowing what the concept is, but then we get lumped into the general umbrella term of how people just aren't open minded towards gay people. When you leave the community, the more nuanced marginalization kind of dies. There are some people who don't get concepts outside of the basic concepts, and they'll be very rude about it. But I've noticed that if you leave the community, people don't know that there is an issue. And so and that's because of the internal conversation with ourselves. And so how are they going to go about it, we're not really talking about it. And it's like, as I'm not saying, it's not anyone's business. But it's like, once you come into the community, the marginalization starts, you get people who are older, who just can't grasp that concept, or people who are younger, who may have their own identity problems. And so they'll take it out on you with like, Well, I'm not sure where I am. But you can't be both, you know, you can't be bi, you can’t be pan, whatever, but what and it's like, yeah, I can and I think you're having a hard time grasping that concept, because that's what you are, you know, a lot of times within the community, the marginalization happens, because people don't want to be something other than they are they find that spot where they're comfortable. And the notion of thing new is terrifying. It's like, you get people who act out because they have just, and then you get people who are just very high in their opinions, they have their head up their ass, and you know, they're like, no, this is how I want it. It's like, that's not how that works. So when you leave the community, I would say the marginalization happens less, because then there's an…it's, it's the umbrella, like we're all sort of, they took us on a bag and just put the bag together into one thing. And like, once you leave the community, it turns into you're in the bag, like, you know, you…there's people know, but they don't have the words for it, because it's not a conversation that they're having, because it's not a part of their life. Some of these conversations will happen, because it's not something that they would ever see in their life. But because we're part of the community, there's conversations that we have, because we see it every day. So outside of the community…less inside more for sure.

I guess my final question is, do you think within the community, is it a matter of, you know, just better education on what terms mean to help the entirety of the community begin to accept all these like smaller subsets of sexual…like sexuality that are beginning to come forward? Or is it something that you know, as the community grows as it's more open in the public, is it something that in 50 years being bisexual is not going to be an odd thing within the community? That type of deal.

So I think there's always going to be some kind of…so for as far as nuancing goes through the generational gap, and as you go along, like I said, there's still some things that I'm learning and unlearning and like, you know, because I was raised amongst a bunch of boomers essentially. And, you know, so my opening like, you know, you'd call something a fag bag, that's not a term that you would use probably now. But growing up, that's so and so's fag bag like that. You wouldn't even think about it. But it's like, as time goes on, it evolves. And so as it goes along within ourselves, like so, you'll meet some people in the community who are more nuanced in like, things like say, we were talking earlier about sexuality and all that jazz. Like, I've met people who don't know what that is, and you know, what, if they don't know what it is, I'll be like, you'll learn eventually, I'm not going to teach you because I don't participate. I'm very much like, cool, you don't know I'm not your mom, go look it up. Like I'm not gonna tell you what to do. You know, I'm very open on like, make sure as long as you're not going down the path of actual toxicity, that's where I start to go, okay, we stopped but it over time, heals. As long as there's an opposition to the community as a whole, there's always going to be a misunderstanding A big conservative joke that I've seen among they're really terrible, terrible memes, like god these are bad is. You know, we're all mixed and blah, blah. And there's 50 genders because they just the concept of black and white is very black and white to them. Whereas it's a rainbow for a reason because there's a lot of colors and not everybody it's like in the it's like artists see different colors of blue. There's cerulean and there's teal there’s sapphires, whatever. You get some who's not an artist who plays video games all day who, but that's a bad example because I play video games all day. See that? This is what I mean by I'm old and stereotypes pop up. But you'll get somebody who's like I play COD all day, but I code so he plays a game. But to him it's a game coded together whereas to me because I did animation it's not just a game I coded together it's textures it's alphas it's a particle effects its engines, it's you know, how does everything work within the function? Same idea. In the community, you've got nuances, you've got trans you've got asexual, you've got bisexual pansexual there's Allo sexual there's the Demi and all this other stuff and then there's you've got like people who are polyamorous and you know, Allo sexual or not, well, yeah, well, sexual, as I just said that, but other aromatic like that kind of stuff. I'm not using that term correctly, am I aro, not aromatic?

Aromantic

Aromantic, there we go. aromatic is a cooking term. Hi. Welcome to my life. So you’re aro, you know, and stuff, there's like nuances that you get. And that's, it's the same idea of like, we're in this community, we know it, but not every person in the community is gonna know it, some people are more tuned to it. So it's using that two different gamers as an as an idea. Some people will see it as it's just a game, it's whatever I know, stuff goes into it, but I don't know what it is. Whereas you get people who would see it as one thing where it's the coding aspect, or like, my mind is more of the artist specs. And like, there's overlap, where they understand that the assets are needed for the code to work. But, you know, or like, you can't, this won't show up because textures aren't linked, but the texture part is not the part that they get. So it's in time I feel like there's it's just, it's a constant. We're going through a social change as an entirety. And I feel like the community is also going through social changes in entirety. And I think that, so long as there's always opposition, there's people willing to learn, which is great, but at the same time, like that whole joke of there's 50 genders in the future, like that's going to exist for quite a while, unfortunately. And with it comes people who were raised in that environment who may not get the difference. If that makes sense. They don't get that, you know, I just see a shade of blue, but I don't know that there's, I see a dark blue, light blue, but I don't see teal Sapphire thoroughly and all that jet. Like there's no nuance difference to me. So you may show up to somebody and it's the thing they said in the beginning, I'm bi I'm pan, you meet somebody who doesn't quite get the difference. It's I'm just bisexual. That's it. That's the basic descriptor of, and a lot of people who are bi, or pan will interchange the two phrases together. Because if you meet somebody who's a little more nuanced on different stuff, you'll use the more complicated term. And if it's that, well see, I'm explaining this in layman's terms. I'm so used to explaining it in layman's terms, because I just deal with people from every walk of life. So everything that comes out of my mouth is layman's terms. And a lot of times people will call me out and it will it's not just that No, you're right. But we usually when I'm explaining it to people, I Ted, I can't go into the details. So I basically dumb it down, everyone gets the concept of bisexuality. And so that's what I use as the blanket term because I don't have to really explain much unless I meet that person who's know what's going on is the same idea over time nuances are going to come out, people are going to be hesitant, people are going to resist because they don't want to learn new things. But within the community, I feel like it's us discovering. So I see a lot of people going this term has been around for 100 years. And we're just now using it again. So as we, as a community become more accepted, society wise, we'll go through a path of discovery, which is what we're doing now. And then at some point, I think we'll figure out and just settle down on the sense of, you know, it much like straight culture, which is the thing most people who are he does is there's a stereotype that goes to it, you know, whatever. It's the same idea. Like there's a stereotype that goes with being gay, but I feel like over time, we're going to figure out the nuances because now we can once again figure out like, you know, like gay marriage is legal. This is a thing I never would have expected to happen in my lifetime. But it's there it you know, and I cried a lot. And I was like, Ah, I'm seeing this people, you know, it's stupid little things like yay hallelujah. But, yeah, over time, I feel like, it's just, it's not gonna be the same. Generations go on to be more open minded. cliques are already dying in high school, which is great. People are more open to their gay friends being gay, whatever. And I think this as the generations go and die off, which is a morbid thought, but as generations go and die off and new generations come in, I feel like the there'll be less. There's less identity. And more just comfort of you don't have to worry about the identifiers. The identifiers exists, because right now we want. And I, we want something to attach ourselves to as an identity. Like, I'm very open, I don't care, whatever. If you call me one thing, I'm like, Yeah, whatever. If you call me, I think I'm like, Yeah, whatever. Because I'm just comfortable. I don't care. But there's a lot of people who don't come from that environment where they can be like that. And so there's a lot of people just, it's partial and identity, because, you know, we're coming off of the very end of what I would say I grew up with where you're the stereotypical gay guy, and now it's just like, nobody cares. Like, you show up. You know, you're just flamboyant. Cool, dope. You know, I've known other flamboyant. I have known non flamboyant, we're still the stereotypes of like, the Butch, lesbian, whatever. But yeah, I think as time goes on, it'll just meld together into just one, you know, thing. And there's always gonna be people who don't get it. And I think the big thing is just being patient, that that's the biggest thing. I've seen people on Tumblr get so up in arms, and it's like, I get it, we're mad, we're angry. But the second we get hostile. You know, I'm not down for playing by the rules. I hate playing by the rules. But once in the bluest of moons, just to get the foot in the door, just to get the door, foot in open it just enough. You know, sometimes you have to find people, they're willing to listen, but they don't understand. So you could either be mad at them, or you could be like, okay, you said something that was offensive, you didn't know was offensive. And so I'm gonna educate you. And they're like, I've had plenty of people go “ah I didn’t know”, I'm like, how are you supposed to know if I didn't tell you? You know, there's a difference between telling your aunt and so this is example to close this up. cardi B got in trouble, because she was she used…I can’t remember what the term was, but she is a very, very offensive term. And people were like, what the hell? And she was like, Well, you know, I didn't know you guys want to tell me like, that's a really bad example of somebody being like, educate me. She's using as an excuse of How was I supposed to know, but they're really genuinely people who will say that, and they go, I didn't know, I just heard it and blah, blah. It's like, you know, it's not excusing of their bad behavior. It's, hey, who had this conversation? Because I don't know. And you're like, yeah, of course, blah, blah. Or it's like, why isn't my music? I'm like, Hey, can you stop? And they're just like, Oh, well, I didn't know. You know, it's like, it's hard to explain unless you're there. But it's like, I feel like just as we go on, we just need to be more open to the fact that there are people who want to learn out there. And we should be patient. Big patience it's the biggest thing. Unfortunately, I've met plenty of people who are very close minded, who they'll make fun of it, blah, blah, blah. And then like a good conversation to me would be, I was having lunch with my mom about how I grew up. I had a lot of friends who were trans and they got bullied. And it was like, you know, it sucks. It sucks to wake up to your best friend crying because he identifies as a man and he's being hazed by having people put like dresses on his door and like panties under his, you know, whatever. And it's like that sucks to wake up to but it was something that like she'd never thought about. And it's the same idea of like, as we go along, we explain things people will be more open towards the idea of it, but we have to, we can push and shove and sweet down for it, whatever. But once in the bluest moons I think we just need to kind of slow down and be like, you know what? Grandma doesn't understand? Grandma's willing to learn. We're not gonna break grandma. We're gonna tell her how it is. And then just remember that grandma comes from a different time and sometimes she'll say things and just kind of cover your face like ooh. So we're not going to the store later with you.

I believe in there myself with the whole thing. So I under I understand where you're coming from those. That was a good example. But uh, yeah, thank you for your time and participation. I have loved listening to all your stories. And it's been a very good perspective and outlook on the whole situation because I know that there are 1000 different experiences that have happened to so many different people that you can't even cover them all.

Oh, yeah.

But yeah, so I think that's all I have. I think that's all our time. And yeah, I just wanted to say thank you for everything.

Well, thank you for having me. Bailey. It was nice to meet you. And it was nice to have this conversation. And it was just nice to kind of share experiences. And, you know, it's not like, you could talk about this all the time. You know, when you're in the community, you're just there and then you have like, Well, hey, stuff like this. And like, Yeah, let's do it. Let's have this conversation. I want to have this conversation. It's a fun time.

You get it, get it, but yeah, so thank you.

You're very welcome.