Deonna Craig Interview, November 9, 2020

Today is November 9th, 2020. This interview is being conducted virtually on Their Story. My name is Claudia Vinci and today I'm interviewing Deonna Craig, one of the artists of the Black Lives Matter mural in downtown Indianapolis, Indiana. Deonna, do I have your permission to record the interview?

You do.

Awesome. Let's start off with a little bit about who you are. Can you tell me in just a couple sentences who you are and a little bit about your life?

Sure, my name again is Deonna Craig. I am a visual artist from Indianapolis, Indiana, born and raised. I graduated from DePauw University in Greencastle, Indiana, and I have a background actually in communication. And so that's what I did really for about 15 years until I started with art probably about 10 years ago. And so I've been doing that full-time every since.

Awesome. Can you tell me a little bit about your childhood experiences? You mentioned you are from Indianapolis. I'm assuming you grew up here as well.

Absolutely. I did, I am an only child and I attended private schools my entire life. And so I grew up around a very small group of people in my schooling and we just kind of matriculated through the years from school to school. I was involved in a lot of you know, mentor programs and after-school programs that kind of broadened my outlook on what's out there in the big world. And so I think that that kind of contributed to my creative and inquisitive side now.

So did you know you wanted to be an artist at a young age then?

Absolutely not. I did not, I'll tell you how that started. I always thought that I wanted to be in television. I actually worked for Jerry Springer for about a year as a production assistant and I really thought that I wanted to be you know behind the scenes and figure out how to make television more appealing to people but that really, that kind of fizzled out for me. That wasn't my drive anymore and I actually got into insurance, of all things. I did that for a long time, maybe 10, 11, 12 years and then one night my mom and I went to a wine and canvas event that are you know, really popular now but back then they were just now starting and the instructor asked, you know, have you ever painted before and I said no, I think that was maybe in 2010 or 2009. I said no. I've never painted before and he just told me I had really raw skill, I had never picked up a paintbrush, but the next day I went to the art supply store and kind of just started doing things. I posted it on social media and someone asked if they could buy it and it totally blew my mind. Like I had never painted before in my entire life. And so from there, it just was a hobby and that was maybe 10 years ago and I just have taken classes and certifications and really self-taught and I've been doing it ever since.

Wow, so did you study art then in college or were – you said that wasn't even something that happened until later, right?

Exactly. No, I didn't. I mean the extent of my art exploration was coloring like I was addicted to coloring as a kid, it was all I did on walls everything and anything, on clothing. I wanted to just – I wanted to make everything colorful, but I did not as a child, you know connect the dots to what that meant as far as artistry is concerned and then I just was in the school mode and corporate mode for so long that it kind of squelched my creativity and I just kind of put it on the back burner. And so I wasn't, until I kind of got burnt out and realized I needed an outlet. I needed something to be more creative. And that is where painting came in and when I tell people all the time, it literally saved my life. So I'm really happy that I was able to find what my passion is and I think what my purpose is.

So tell me about the transition into being a professional artist. What kind of work do you usually do now?

So I wear a few different hats as far as art is concerned because I have a business background, it was easy for me to kind of be an artist and an entrepreneur and I don't want to say easy. That's not the right word at all. It was easier for me to marry those two worlds just because I had formal training on the business side, but not so much on the art side. So I was able to let my creativity be my guide and my project manager if you will on everything that I do so now to answer your question, I do live paintings for like corporate events or you know, residential events. I am an art instructor for children and adults. I of course do traditional commission painting, meaning people commission me to maybe design pieces for their new homes or for baby nurseries or whatever the occasion calls for. All things art, is kind of my tagline for my business. And so anything that you can think of murals, like I said art instruction, art therapy. All things art is kind of the umbrella under my business.

So, can you describe your art style for me? And do you think that it's changed since you first started?

Absolutely, it has. My art style – when I first started I wanted to explore everything because I was just learning and so my paintings depicted that and that's not a good nor bad thing. It's just a thing, but I've been able to kind of hone my style over the years and now I would consider myself a contemporary abstract artist because while some of my paintings may depict a specific thing or portrait or a person or a building or landscape, a lot of the background is just very fluid. What am I feeling at the moment when I sit down into the the canvas, what am I feeling? A lot of my artwork depicts my dreams, I paint from a dream journal and so I dream very vividly and I actually able to remember a lot of the dreams that I have because I've trained myself to immediately transcribe them when I wake up. And so I have a thought or I have a vision or I have words in my head and I write them down and so I could draw a picture or I could write a few words or I could write for half an hour or however long it takes for me to dump everything that's in my mind into my journal and then when I'm sitting at the canvas the next day or the next week, and I'm like, you know, if I'm not working on a piece that someone has commissioned me for and I just want to free style paint, I'm able to refer to my dream journal and put it onto canvas. And so that really helps me funnel through all of the crazy thoughts in my head of what's going on in the world or what's going on in my personal life or things just that I've picked up along the way and transfer them to the canvas for everyone to see.

That's such an interesting process. Can you give an example of maybe one of your major projects that kind of spawned from your dream journal?

Yes, absolutely. Last year, I had the opportunity to open a storefront for 30 days downtown Indianapolis. And there was a painting that I put in the window. I never in a million years thought I'd have a storefront let alone downtown like maybe one block from Monument Circle. And so I was able to meet so many people walking by every day. Anyway, there was a painting that I put in the window that – really when I say that it created itself because I had a dream – all that I could remember from my dream. It was just really blue, all different types of blue, teal, navy, all kinds of blues and I could remember this face like a robot's face, but it was kind of humanoid and robotic at the same time and that's all that I could remember. But so when I went to paint it, it just started like drawing itself. And I mean all these visions just flooding back to me and it was really big. I'm only four eleven and this canvas was maybe, I'd say the equivalent of someone that's maybe five two or five three, so it's even bigger than me. And so I just had this very big space to create and this face just kept appearing and I kept putting all these blues and more blues and more blues and you know just really fleshing it out. So anyway, I put it in the window before my store even opened on my grand opening day, this guy from Pittsburgh walked by and it was maybe 11 o'clock at night. He was just out with some friends on his way from his hotel and he's there.

I was about to turn off the lights. I was in and he saw the painting in the window and he just stopped like and I was thinking who is this guy? And why is he looking in the window and he just stopped, he was staring at the painting and so he knocked on the window. I told him I was closed. So he actually came back the next day and he told me that he's not an artist. He just sketches and doodles a lot and he said that my painting kind of reminded him of something that he was creating and he showed me in his flipbook just kind of some things that he was fleshing out as well, and he said that my painting spoke to him so much because it just intermingled with all of the thoughts and all the things that he had been thinking about as well as he was about to start a clothing line. And so he purchased it, it was my very first piece that I sold but something about that painting even before I put it in the store. I said out loud to myself you're going to go first. I knew it was going to pay – I knew it was going to throw first. I knew it was going to connect with someone and he told me like he stopped, he could not move, like the painting was actually physically talking to him. And so I knew that, like I knew it was going to happen. I just didn't know it was going to happen that fast and so and I don't want to sound like really like Twilight Zone-ish but like those type of things happen in artistry, they really do and that's how you know that you're doing what you're supposed to do and that your paintings find the homes that they're supposed to find because they literally create themselves. They tell their own stories. I'm just the vessel and so that is just like, that was confirmation for me that I'm doing what I'm supposed to do.

Wow, that's an awesome experience. As we kind of get into talking about the mural, do you consider yourself an activist?

I do absolutely because – not only for myself but I am a teacher as well. I teach students, Elementary age students in different after-school programs in order to infuse it creativity into their thought processes. I do this for them as well because I stand in front of them every day and I tell them, you know about history and I tell them about, you know different people that we learned about in class, but I never thought of myself as a role model until I had 250 kids depending on me to walk what I talk. And so I think that it's so important to not only tell my kids you can believe in yourself or stand up for what's right and get involved in social justice and then you know, I have it a platform to do that myself. They can actually see someone that's living and that they can connect to actually doing those things. And so it helps me, it's a teachable moment for my kids, it helps me to relate things even for myself and it just makes it even more real and so even though I didn't seek out to be an activist, the world created the space that you know, those that have a voice in something to say and things and things to lose. I really don't have a choice not to do that.

So is art a part of those teaching moments or is this kind of a different educational program?

It's all intertwined, it's what's considered art activism and so just using tools and creativity to say, to get a message out there that may not resonate with someone that doesn't want to hear you on a bullhorn or doesn't want to you know witness a march. They may resonate with a painting that has the same message that those that choose a different route of activism or social justice is concerned and it's just as powerful. It just may resonate with someone differently and I always say to meet someone meet people where they are. And so there are so many different avenues to connect to those that need to hear these messages and luckily art is one that does connect, there may be times where art is very colorful and bright and happy but there's some times that they make you feel very uncomfortable and they invoke those conversations that need to be had and so yes, I think that art and activism go hand-in-hand and it helps me to connect to my kids to keep their attention and to make it again, to make it really real.

Awesome. So I want to ask you a little bit about what motivates your activism and more like – this might seem obvious to you – but do you consider yourself a part of Black Lives Matter?

Can you repeat the first part of your question again?

Yeah. I just wanted to ask kind of a broad question about what motivates your activism.

Sure. So actually the answer will probably be the same for both parts of your question. I really, again, don't have a choice, but to be a part of a Black Lives Matter movement because I am black and so whether I affiliate with a specific group or or do things on my own, I'm black and my life matters and so black lives matter. You know what I mean? There's nothing that I can do about that. I was born into this skin. I was born into this to this brain. I was born with this mind. And so I am using the cards that I have to show the world that black lives matter. And so if that makes me a part of some group then yes, I'm a part of some group. If that makes me an individual that's black and that life matters, then absolutely that's what I am and so I absolutely want my art to depict that a black life and a white life and a Hispanic life and an Asian life is a life. And I don't want to really focus on the categorizations of them, but I have to because that's the climate that we're in and so yes, my black life matters and that is what motivates a lot of the things that I do a lot of my artwork shows brown skin, shows black skin, shows deep thought-provoking things that make you think: why do I feel the way that I feel or why do I do what I do or why do I have this bias or you know, when you think about prejudice and discriminatory things, I really hope that my art makes people stop and think: how am I contributing to racism or all the racial climate that we're in or how am I contributing to a solution? That's what I want. That's what my art does or I hope that it does.

Awesome. Thank you. Tell me what it was like for you growing as a young black woman in Indianapolis.

I grew up in an all-black neighborhood and I went to an all-black school from the age of preschool until 8th grade. And so I never interacted with anyone outside of my race, to be honest with you unless it was at the store or on television, but as far as like living around or going to school with anyone outside of a black person, I never did until I went to high school and then my social climate totally changed because I went to a predominantly white high school. It was a Catholic College Preparatory High School. And you know, my grades allowed me to pass the entrance exam and go there and and it really opened my eyes to life outside of my community because that's all I knew for 13 years was just all black people and all black things and all black culture and that's just all that I knew and then I turned a total different page and went to a predominantly white high school where there was maybe 15, 20 black students in my incoming class, out of a class of 200, you know what I mean? And so it was just a totally different environment that I didn't even know that I had to adjust to I just didn't know it was a thing. It just didn't occur to me and so I was introduced to just different ways of thinking, and just different backgrounds and I was introduced to people that actually went on boating trips and went to log cabins and went like – those were things I just did not even conceptualize. I mean it was just something I saw on television and I never knew that my life was just a lot different than peers of my – outside of my community until you know, I went to high school so that – and then after high school, I went to a predominantly white college as well. And so it was just a total culture shift, but it introduced me to so many people and a diverse group of people and very formative part of my life.

Awesome, before we talk about the mural – just a little bit more about your activism. Tell me about your activism throughout the past several months in Black Lives Matter and kind of how your life has been shaped by experiences of any racial discrimination.

Can you ask that one more time?

Yeah, sorry. That was like a multi-part question. Basically, how is your life been shaped by experiences of racial discrimination and especially in the past several months?

Okay, so. Hmm. Well I – that's a – I'm sorry that's question is just really, it hits home. So I have definitely been affected by racial injustice. Just you know from very small to very big things, that I could tell stories forever but in the past few months I would say that I have never experienced racism as far as my art is concerned until the Black Lives Matter mural. Creating art is very personal. You put your heart, you put your soul into it if you're doing it right. When I signed up to apply to be a part of the mural, I wanted to creatively make my voice heard and speak to people from all walks of life. I am a lover. Like I wish that we could live in peace and Harmony. I know that's cliche. I wish we could and so I'm thinking, you know, I can use this opportunity to meet people where they are and create this beautiful piece of art and put some very powerful words and thoughts behind it and really meet people and then for that to be defaced – it really touched me a little differently and I know sometimes people think it's just art, but like I said art is very personal. And so when you go in with really really good intentions and to get that thrown back in your face. It's just kind of like, huh. This is where we are. And so that touched me differently because it really just kind of showed the fabric of kind of what we're living in and it's just really sad because art is supposed to be uplifting. Art is supposed to make you connect to your core and to where – I feel like where you're supposed to be and so just for that to be so ugly in this climate it just yeah, it's just been, it's been rough, but I think on the flip side, I think that it has allowed for so many conversations to happen that that may not already have been in the art circle specifically. And so art activism I think will continue to rise and continue to meet more people and so I'm hoping that that's the silver lining that's going to come out of this.

Thank you for sharing that. Now that we're kind of moving into the mural, you've touched on this but what do you think the original vision or the goal for what the mural is meant to accomplish is?

It was strategically placed where it was for – number one – in the center of where there used to be such vibrance and such a great show in display of black wealth and black entrepreneurship and black creativity and the music and there was so many things on Indiana Avenue that used to exist that don't anymore and so the mural was strategically placed there to bring back that feel and to bring back some of that ancestral spirit of vibrance and love – number one. Number two. There are a lot of Black Lives Matter murals that were popping up around the United States. And so the the curators behind this mural wanted to infuse that to Indiana, but give it its own flair. And so I think that it was so important to get people from all different backgrounds of art. Some were muralists, some had never done murals before, some were just starting out as artists, some have been doing it for 20 years and it's formed such a community outside of just creating the mural but it allow for so many families to come out and reflect on just number one the message black lives do matter and then number two there were so many messages within each letter as well, which kind of made it stand apart from a lot of different murals that were across the United States in other areas and now it's catapulted in something bigger. I mean, we're in art galleries now, we're having we have shows as a collective group of people, the same 18 artists that did this mural back in August. We have taken it to the next level and it has taken on a life of its own and it's beginning to reach so many more people outside of just being on the concrete as to where we started and I really think that that speaks to black resilience and and it's a display of the life of a black person. You know, you may have a foot in your neck or you may be oppressed or pushed down but that bounce back. It's otherworldly. It just makes me stop and marvel in the resilience of black people in the times that we are, so I'm grateful that I was chosen to be a part of this mural and it's like I said, it's just become so much bigger and I'm glad.

You mentioned the Indianapolis mural is kind of unique compared to the other ones around the country. Why do you think that?

Because of the way that it was designed. It was designed where each artist could take their own liberties and and give their own message inside of Black Lives Matter. And I think that that's so important because you can think of black lives matter as just a blanket statement and then that makes it – it could sound as if all black people think the same thing or live the same way. This mural was able to show so many different vantage points. Everyone gave a different splash of their own personality. There was 18 artists and each of them told their own story and so like for me, for my letter, I wanted to give homage to the families that lost loved ones at the hands of Indianapolis Police, you know all the way back to the 80s until maybe a few months ago. So that was what I wanted to do, but another artist wanted to spray paint a picture of Breonna Taylor to show the – can you give me a second, please?

I'm sorry, I don't know what I was saying.

You're okay. You're just talking about what the other artists were kind of painting.

Oh, yeah. Okay. So another artist showed Breonna Taylor and just kind of that backstory and another artist did a Lion King theme and tied it all the way back to our ancestors and another – it was just so many different – someone wrote a Maya Angelou poem and just so many beautiful flowers. Everyone's view on what their black life means and what they're contributing to this movement is displayed. And so I think that that is what sets it apart from a lot of other cities and a lot of other cities were really – they were really beautiful. I just think that ours has a story within a story.

Awesome, you started getting into this, but can you tell me about your role in the creation of the mural? How did you come to be involved in the project?

So there was a call out for different visual artists to apply to be a part of the mural process. And so I saw the call out. I knew that I wanted to talk to my kids about this moment in time and I hate to call it a moment because it's not – it's life, but it was so prevalent in the news and something that I've been talking about with my students for so long. I thought that this would be a great opportunity to bring that to real life. And I love to paint, I paint every single day. If I'm not teaching then I'm probably painting and so it was an opportunity to to marry a lot of different worlds that I live in and so when that call out came out I said, I think that this has my name written all over it. So I sent my information in and I got a call that I was chosen and it's just been a whirlwind from there.

So talk me through your portion of the mural. What kind of ideas motivated your work and what did you paint?

I wanted to give a very classic mural vibe. And so I chose like a kaleidoscope type of theme and or maybe like a stained glass window type of theme and I wanted it to be very colorful, but very minimalistic and the reason I wanted to do that is because I was going to overlay the crossroads of where each of the victims were gunned down. And so overall the big picture is I wanted to say the names of the victims of police brutality and killings at the hands of IMPD and I wanted their names to be memorialized and for people to know who they were. On television we hear George Floyd, we hear Breonna Taylor, but there may not be as much talk about some of the victims that were right here that you walked by at the grocery store that you never knew or that was in your 7th period class or at your church gathering and they're no longer here. I wanted those families to have a place to come, to have a place to congregate and just spend some time with their loved one in the midst of art. So to the left and to the right there are the other letters and I love that my letter the V is right in the middle of the mural because it has all of these beautiful letters and this great energy surrounding it. And so right in the middle of this mural are the names of the fallen angels, that I like to call are fallen angels in the city of Indianapolis.

Thank you. As a follow-up, what do you think the power is in naming these locals that were victims of IMPD rather than kind of more broad ideas of Black Lives Matter.

So if I were to those walk up to someone and say, you know, have you heard of Eleanor Northington or Christopher Goodlow? They would say no, but those were people that were your neighbors. They were your community members. Dreasjon Reed was your church member. They're no longer here because of police brutality and we don't talk about that and we just kind of see it on the news and then we go to school the next day and we go to work the next day and it matters like this stuff is happening every day and you get in your car and you drive down the road and you go about your life, but everyone doesn't have that same luxury. And so I wanted people to understand that you can't just turn this off with with your remote control. You can't mute this, you can't change the channel. This is happening right next door and it's important for people to know you can't ignore it.

Thank you. Tell me about the day the artists painted the mural, kind of who was taking part in the painting and kind of helping out in that process.

There were so many volunteers that just wanted to help. Everyone isn't an artist. Well, everyone isn't a trained artist, I should say, but everyone has something that they could contribute to this mural process. And so there were so many people who were here. They're just maybe helping tape off letters or bringing more paint buckets or there were DJ's, there were youth groups. There were family members, socially distanced of course, taking pictures. There were people that are elders that lived in that area so long ago when it was so vibrant that came back just to see that energy that was there that day. It was such a community feel and it could have even been bigger. But of course we're living in a pandemic and so we had to reduce the number of people that were there. But just that even small group of people that contributed to making this happen, you can't plan for something like that. I mean, logistically you can block off the streets like we did, you can hire the DJ's, you can hire the artists, but that energy and that love and that beauty that came from that day just because people wanted to get out there, have their voices heard and make a statement. That's what comes of that and it shows like if you just love, look what could happen, like it sounds so complicated but so easy at the same time and I think that this mural shows what love can look like.

So you mentioned a few times how you think the kind of vibrant Community of downtown Indianapolis has changed. Why do you think that is and how do you think that has kind of affected the local black community?

Well, there was just so many different buildings that have been erected over the years and it just – I think really the the landmark that's there now is the Madam CJ Walker Legacy Center and outside of that, you know, the restaurants and that the culture is not there anymore and it's just different businesses took over and prospects went away, opportunities went away. And here we are and that happens all over the country. It's not just an Indianapolis thing but it's just sad when you look at the – if you go, maybe let's just say to the Historical Society. You just look back at all of their documents and old news newsreels and newspapers of just what it looks like and so much joy and it's just kind of, you know, concrete and steel now.

Moving forward, you've mentioned this a couple times, but walk me through the defacement of the mural and what happened that day.

Sure. So it took two days to complete the mural and so for a week, the street was blocked off. It was guarded by volunteers. Unfortunately, you have to have guards for artwork, but it was guarded by people who wanted this mural to stay as is and people were able to you know, go take pictures and and spend time with it and really take it in as as a story and as a part of the movement and then one night after the security was no more, you know, you can't guard it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week forever. As soon as the security was released, we get a call that white paint had been splattered and poured throughout the entire mural from beginning to end. And when you look at it, it looks like a very cowardly thing. It was a rush job. It was horrible. Like if you're going to choose to deface the mural, deface the mural, like it was just very sloppy. It was very – it was just a cowardly act and it showed, but at the same time it really added to the story of what it is that we're going through. A lot of people were like, you know, this is just art. What are you doing with art? This isn't going to make a difference and then you have hate show up in the face of white paint and now it's adding even more to the conversation, you know all that we did was paint some words on the street that said black lives matter. If you happen to walk by and you want to stop, you want to reflect on what that means great. That's what we were trying to do and for someone to say: you know, what, no, it doesn't. That's what we were talking about at the very beginning and now it's memorialized in the middle of what we were doing and the point has been made. Thank you very much.

So what was the artists' kind of group reaction to the defacement? And did you at all decide to fix the mural?

We were sad, art is personal. So it kind of felt like they were pouring paint on us and pouring paint on our feelings and pouring paint on our lives. I mean, we said black lives matter, you know what I mean? And so we were upset, we were sad, but we decided that we wanted to keep the paint exactly where it was because it allowed us to remember why we did it and it also allowed us to show who were doing it for, to reach those that need to be reached and so before it was defaced, it was a beautiful mural. Now, it's a story and so we were able to kind of rest on that even as mad and as upset as we were and decided that we're just going to keep it as is and let it be a living artwork.

So what were the reactions to the mural from any like local groups or individuals, such as the state government or the police department even?

After it was defaced you mean?

Just the mural in general, but also that.

So the group that petitioned to have the mural installed, they were – I would say it wasn't received with open arms. Let's just say that, there were a lot of people that did not want it to happen or did not understand its relevance or just were full of hate. And so while it was approved to be installed and for the streets to be blocked off, it wasn't met with all roses. There were protests groups. There was hate on social media and threats. There had to be a group of people employed to just keep us safe from people who hate us as we painted on the mural, like no one should have to have an armed guard behind them as they paint. That just doesn't make any sense to me in 2020. And so that was the negative part, but then there were so many people who wanted to take a part in this event, in this movement and it brought a lot of people to the table that weren't there before and so I think that it's serving is purpose. There was a lot of coverage on the news and in the newspaper and it still is, it's still a conversation that's being had and so I think that it's doing what it was supposed to do and that negative reaction that we received from people. You're going to get that anywhere anytime. So we've kind of just learn to live with it.

Tell me more about the news coverage of the mural. I know you and the other artists have been kind of approached for some interviews and other projects. What has been your experience with that?

So there are 18 of us and it's very helpful to have such a dynamic collective that you can pull from and so we have been contacted by a lot of the new stations, a lot of the newspapers to speak with us individually and as a collective to talk about our backstories, to talk about what this mural and this opportunity has done for us after the mural was installed and it's just amazing how many people have been reached because it has gotten picked up by so many different outlets. It's just beyond what I thought was going to just be a weekend and beautiful art and it's starting to starting to become something more. And news outlets and television – I'm sorry and newspapers are still taking notice and and we've just had three news coverage segments this week and we did the mural in August. And so we're still talking about it to this day. A journal – I forgot the name of the journal but we just got contacted by someone to write a piece. There's a documentary that we are wanting to – that we've been approached about, so there's just so many different things that are in the works for us, and we're using this opportunity to continue to let people know that black lives matter. We are individual artists. We are black. Let's tell you about our lives and how they matter.

Awesome. Can you talk a little bit more about the significance to you and the other artists of having this group of black artists kind of work on one project together?

Absolutely. It's been a godsend. Like I said, there are some artists that have maybe been painting for a year. There's some artists that may be painted five and then there's some this painted for over 20 years. And so there is a wealth of knowledge between the 18 of us and just an organic mentorship that came about without even trying, there's so much love in the group and so it's been so beneficial. There's so many opportunities that we may not have known about that we now just bounce off of each other in artistically the things that we can grow from different opportunities to travel, to learn different skill sets, and it's kind of like going to school again and meeting people from all over the world or all over the country and realizing that you have so many things in common, but then so many things to learn from each other. It's that but in art if that makes sense.

So going off of that, why do you think it's important to have specifically local artists contribute to a project like this?

You can see that the love that we have for our community, you can see it in our art and then it just allows us to reflect on things a little easier because we have that nostalgia. We have that that common ground, we have the memories of –even though we don't all know each other, we have memories of different locations in the city or different current or different events that have happened over the years that because we all live in Indianapolis we are able to all kind of come around and so that's like our common ground and then it also shows the diversity of the city as well. And I think it's a great look for the art community to know that there are brilliant artists of all different backgrounds in the city that you may not have ever heard of before that may not get the highlights that they deserve but are now able to tell their story to make beautiful art. And so many people have been blessed by it. And I think that that army that you have behind you of 18 people just makes that so much bigger.

So kind of going off of that as well. Why do you think artists and projects like murals are important to Black Lives Matter, kind of more on the national scale?

People connect to creativity because I think everyone is creative in some way, shape, or form. So I think that it allows you just for a moment to connect with the person just as a creative, not a black person, not a white person, not just as a creative in general and then you realize, oh, wow. We're having a political conversation. Oh, we're having a social justice conversation. Well, I've already got you because we've been talking about art for an hour and you didn't even realize it and you now realize that we are more alike than not and so I think art just is able to bring people in that may have come kicking and screaming before and I think that that is the beauty of Black Lives Matter as far as art is concerned because it illustrates the things that people have been saying for so long and people learn differently. Some people are visual learners, some people learn from doing things over and over again or from hearing things. And so if you learn differently than maybe art is what is needed to to bring you to your next level of growth.

So you mentioned how people can kind of learn through art. What are any ways in which people, and I think specifically white people, can be better allies at this time?

Listening and really connecting to what it is that the person is trying to convey. Maybe, you know, just listening is the biggest thing and that's why I was able to just to answer you so quickly and art is able to help with that because you're not necessarily talking or not necessarily preaching to someone. You have put your thoughts on to canvas and then you're asking for your white allies to stop, take it in, think about it, internalize it, and then look at it through my lens for a moment and that's not always easy to do that's not our automatic default as human beings and so art is able to have you pause for a moment and put on someone else's glasses and look at it through those frames. And so I think that that is what I would ask of a white ally, to listen to what is being said, listen to where I might need help and maybe not infuse what you think may need to be happening because it probably would have been happening all along if that worked.

Thank you. So we are getting to the last few minutes. So I just have a few kind of concluding questions for you. What are your thoughts on what the long-term effects of the Black Lives Mural might be?

I hope that it is able to – honestly, I hope that it looks silly in 20 years. To be honest with you. I hope in twenty years, someone looks at that and says you really had to write that on the street? You know, I hope that that is the conversation that is being had and if so, then the mural will have helped to make that moment in history happen. Now back to reality. I hope that it just makes people talk more and also relate more. Just even having these types of conversations and just learning about somebody's back story. This is come from the real, you know what I mean? And so even if this, just talking to somebody if that happens more, then the work has been done and hopefully black lives matter being painted on the street, it's not necessary in the future and we can go back to painting other things. But until then, you know, we'll keep shouting it from the rooftops and making beautiful art out of it.

As a follow-up, what do you envision for the future of the 18 artists?

Oh man, the moon and the stars. I mean the artists are amazing, they're amazing. We just had an exhibit together with over 70 pieces of artwork in a gallery and we had a reception for it this past weekend. And I mean, I cried, I had goosebumps. It's been beautiful and I think that we were not brought together by happenstance, I think that we were brought together because we were meant to be, that there is a story yet to be told and I think that we as individuals and collectively are going to tell it. Sometimes we joke and say that we feel like superheroes and not for any narcissistic reason whatsoever. It's because individually, yeah, we can make a mark, but like all of us together and all of the artistic skills we have, man we could really do some really great things together and we're all committed to doing that and we have a platform to do it and we're really excited about it.

Awesome. So, how is your life specifically changed because of the mural and how do you see your work as an artist changing because of this?

It's made me – sometimes you take things for granted. And I've been doing art for a long time, but it made me realize that it really is making a difference. Like I always think that it should or it could and I hope that it does, but things like the opportunities like this mural. It's a confirmation that I'm doing what I'm supposed to do and that art does help heal and art helps to educate. And so opportunities have come from this mural for sure and it's made me realize that I can do this for the rest of my life and touch a lot of people and also grow as a human and ascend to where it is that I want to be and the opportunities have shown that and it shows that it's reaching people and that people are noticing.

Awesome, so we only have a couple minutes left. Are there any questions you think I should have asked or any last thoughts?

I would say that while the mural is beautiful, it is one of the most and I might be biased, but I think it's one of the best murals in the country. I never ever ever want the message to be lost that black lives matter. Like it could have been in black and white. It could have been, we could have not even put all those beautiful colors on it and just stood there and at the top of our lungs shouted black lives matter and to me that is just as powerful and so I never wanted to get lost in the bold colors and and the beauty behind that while it does add to it. I want people to know that all that we're saying is that we matter like we don't we don't want extra treatment or you know, special treatment. Just let us live our beautiful black lives. So that's it.

Awesome, Deonna. Thank you so much for doing this interview with me. It's been incredible. I really appreciate your contribution to my project and thank you for taking your time to do this interview today.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. Bye. Have a great day.