Jack Klitgaard Interview, October 28, 2020

Hi, my name is Emily Lefeber and, today, I'm conducting an interview with Jack Klitgaard. This interview is for my oral history project for Oral History at American University in Fall 2020 with Dr. Anna Kaplan. We'll be discussing Jack's experiences as a high school senior during the COVID-19 pandemic. The date today is October 28 2020. And we're conducting this interview virtually using Their Story.io.

Jack, do I have your permission to record this interview?

Yes.

Perfect. So, first, I want to say thank you for talking with me today. We'll start out with some pretty basic questions. Can you tell me your name--your full name?

Sure--My name is Andrew Jack Klitgaard, but everyone calls me Jack.

When and where were you born?

I was born July 18 2002, in Omaha, Nebraska. But I've lived in Harlan [Iowa] all my life.

All right, um, how would you describe Harlan as you grew up?

I think overall a very welcoming, great community in order to, you know, be a child and for parents to raise children. It's a great example of small town America, in my opinion that there's hardworking people. You know, very family structure is very important. And Harlan in general, and, um, you know, I think is a great place to grow up.

Yeah. If you were taking me on like, a tour of Harlan, what would we see?

Sure. Um, well, it is a town of, I think it's 6000 people, maybe a little less than that. But it's kind of where two highways have gone together, highway 58 and highway 44 in kind of a T-intersection. There's, you know, a bunch of different businesses and that sort of thing. There's a school district, that's Harlan Community School District, that supports both Harlan and, then, I think, seven or eight surrounding communities, which come together to form one school. I guess there's a lot of different kinds of businesses around. It's very residential. In general, though, most of the businesses stick to either there's a, like a historic downtown area, which has different buildings from, you know, 100 years ago, or whenever the town was founded. Maybe even older. And, then, along the two highways, there's different more modern kind of businesses.

Growing up, who would you say was a part of your household?

So my mother and father are both in the household as well as my older sister Ellen, who is nine years older than me, so, she's graduated. She's 10 years older than me and school, nine years in age. So, she graduated high school when I was in, you know, in second grade, so she was out of house, from my tween two teenage years, but she had nine years by herself with the house that she grew up. And then we were together for nine years in the house. And then she graduated and I had nine years. So, yeah, and now she's off and married, but I'm still here, about graduate. So, that's kind of where we're at now.

Can you tell me a little bit about your parents?

Sure. My father is Dr. Don Klitgaard. He is a physician. He worked in Harlan for, as a you know, a family care doctor for 15 years now. He owns his own company, and helps different areas of the medical field, from working with hospitals and leadership seminars and all sorts of different things. But then my mom [Laurel], she was a stay at home mom. She went to college and was a teacher for a while but then after having children, she decided she would stay home. So she raised Ellen and me, but she's a avid volunteer. As is my father, I guess, but both my both of them helped me in my boy scouting career. My mom is a kind of an important person in the district level of Boy Scouts, and she ran the children's program. She still kind of runs the children's program for a church and she was on the parks and recs committee. So lots of different volunteer opportunities even though she wasn't working.

Yeah, um, so how would you describe yourself as a child when you were younger?

Well as a child, and even now, I guess I was never a super rowdy outgoing kind of person. People will say that I was born an old man because even as a child, I was, you know, I wasn't the little boy who was running out and you know, playing in the mud and going crazy, I wanted to stay in and now read books, watch movies, play with my sister, and that sort of thing was more my deal. Not that I didn't enjoy outdoor activities and that sort of thing. But if there was going to be going to the playground, I would want to go down the slide as intended, you know, that sort of thing and not be jumping around all kind of crazy. That's kind of continued into my high school life. But that's kind of how I would be as child I guess.

Yeah. What were your favorite things to do?

Let's see, well, like I said, as a young child, I read a lot, my parents read to me, and I read myself a lot. There was this local competition when I was, you know, maybe six or seven, those a K through 12, like reading competition, and whoever read the most books during the summer, and I won that at, you know, age six, or whatever. That was kind of my thing as a little boy. I eventually got into the cub scouting program, which starts at age, first grade, so like six or seven. So I was really involved in that. I kind of progressed through that and earned most of the possible things as I went through that. And that kind of was a great kind of helped me get out of my shell some and made new friends and that sort of thing. But yeah, those were kind of some things in my younger life. But then, as I kind of grew a little bit older, I got more into, you know, into movies, and hanging out with friends in school and some different things. But I think, for the most part, my interests have stayed very, you know, intellectual that kind of thing, through, like, you know, childhood and teenage years.

Um, what did you want to be when you grew up?

As a kindergartner, first grader, they always ask, and, of course, I wanted to be an astronaut for a while, I'm at the, you know, beginning of kindergarten, but, um, I had always had an interest in being a doctor, because I had been around the hospital a lot as downs and was on call and that sort of thing. So I got to see lots of different aspects of the health care system, I was always interested in that even as a younger child. And as I grew up, I became more and more interested in the, you know, science things and more and more, you know, you should the idea that that could be something in my life, and I that continued, that's still the path that I think I'm going to pursue into college and beyond. But, so I kind of was at least semi focused on that from a somewhat young age, I guess.

Yeah. Um, do you have any memories from your childhood that you remember the most like that stick out to you?

Um, let's see. I mean, I don't think there's like, tons of things that super stick out, I guess. I remember, a lot of those things that I have, that are super memorable, are through my scouting career as I went to different places. Um, I guess I don't know, where you draw the line of, you know, child versus teenager, whatever. But, um, when I was, you know, 12, 13, 14, kind of that age, that's when I started to get more into outdoor kind of activities. The, when I transitioned from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts, that led to a lot more opportunities for me to go outside with friends and have these outdoor adventures kind of things. And the things that really stick out, honestly, are these high adventure trips. So you would, uh, there's different ways that you can do that through the Boy Scouts, where you can do either like backpacking, or canoeing, or scuba diving and all these different things. And every summer we went and did a different kind of trip. So when I was, you know, I think-- Yeah, when I was 13, I went with a group of boys from Harlan out to Colorado, and did a 25 mile backpacking trip through, like, the wilderness and the Rocky Mountains. You know, you we didn't see anyone the entire time for a whole week we were way out, climbing mountains, you know, made her own, like, we had backpacking food and so you had to like boil, dehydrated food and all that sort of thing. Um, but those kind of activities were It's just so different from small town life and is like, getting out into the, you know, the wilderness was big? For sure. A big memory that I would have.

Yeah, that's great. Um, so you mentioned a different than small town life, how would you, yourself describe your experience of small town life.

So I guess, um, a lot of teenagers would point to, you know, living in a town of 5000 with like, you know, a movie theater and a, a bowling alley, and like three restaurants and that kind of thing and say, "This is really boring. This sucks, I want to get out of here," that kind of thing. Um, but for me, I think I guess I think that that small town, America, Mom and Pop apple pie kind of thing is really important, at least to me. And that living in a small town allowed me to get close with a lot of members of the community. When I go out to do different things, I will always encounter people that know who I am, either through my family or just like, through me doing different things, and having that sort of community behind you. But you would never find in a city in the same way. I think that is really important, especially for, for children to feel like that they're not alone in the world, and that there's these other people besides just people in your family that you can really build a community around. And I think that's very important.

Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Um, so moving into your teenage years. Of course, thinking like, normal times pre pandemic--

Sure--

What activities are you active in now?

So, um, I guess one thing I forgot to mention earlier is that I have been playing piano since I was four years old. And that's kind of always been a super big thing in my life. The I guess, as I went into teenage like, I think when I was 12, or 13, I kind of hit a wall where I was like, I don't know if I want to keep doing this anymore, like most people do. But then my parents said, like, do this for another year. And if you really don't want to do it, then you can quit then. But when I pushed through that time of like, I don't know any, like things I actually want to play, I'm just playing out of a book, I don't really feel like it, then it kind of burst through to like, I can play these cool songs that I actually like to that was a big interest of mine that continues to grow. Now. I've gotten into jazz piano and playing, like, semi-professional level, have a trio with two other guys from our jazz band that played together. And just playing classically and playing for different, you know, occasions and recording. And that sort of thing is something I really enjoy.

Um, other things during my teenage years. I'm a person of faith and going to, there's a local Baptist Church that I go to with several of the other people from my high school that I've gone to, you know, since I was born, really, I was baptized there at age nine or 10 or so, and gone to church, pretty much every Sunday played in the worship, play drums for the worship band, and that sort of thing. So I think that's extremely, that's really the what I try to build my life around is the beliefs that are, you know, espoused there.

Other things, the more I got into middle and high school, I really wanted to focus on school as a strength of mine. I skipped first grade. And I think that just from an early age, I was always interested in just you know, being curious about learning different things. And in middle and high school, I was able to, you know, constantly actually be able to take more classes that I was interested in. And especially in high school, I've been able to, you know, take lots of math and science classes different and also English classes and just been able to explore different things that I really enjoy. So I think focus on school, church, Boy Scouts were kind of the main things I guess. So, yeah.

Yeah, it's great. What do you do in your free time when you're not busy with all of these extracurriculars?

Sure. Um, so, as I've gotten older, I have gotten more away from reading in my free time, which is probably not a great thing, but I'd gotten more into a I really like old movies, watching those with my family. And I watch a lot of YouTube of like analyzing different music and movies and that sort of thing. And the other thing I got really into was video games, I guess, like most teenage boys and girls alike, I guess. But I had gotten more into that as I grew. And especially during COVID, when you can't go see other people, that's been a kind of a way you can still keep some social interaction in your life is through that.

Yeah, what games do you play?

I am a Nintendo fan. So I have a Nintendo Switch. And I play mostly, mostly Nintendo games. Super Smash Brothers is my favorite game that I have played an embarrassing amount during COVID. And another time, so

Nintendo is good stuff. I have played an embarrassing amount of Animal Crossing.

Oh-- Yes.

Yeah. So, um, do you does your family travel?

Yes.

Where have you been?

Yeah, so um, I guess that was another thing during, especially when I was, you know, I don't know, kind of when Ellen was still around, especially So, you know, nine, age nine age, you know, 14 or 15. Especially, we went to a lot of different places. We went out west and traveled through a lot of different national parks, which is another reason I kind of got into some of the more outdoor things. We went through, you know, Arches, and Sequoia and all those ones out west, and that just was life changing for me. And even when I was in that we went to, I was really into those, let's see the Little House on the Prairie books, um, as a little kid, and went and saw all the different places around the country that those books take place in. And there's like historical sites for all those different places, we went and saw those.

Um, my family is really into Disney. So we've been to Disneyland and Disney World, lots and lots of times. And that's kind of our typical family vacation spot pre-COVID was, you would think we went at least once a year for pretty much my whole life. Because there was when you have, you know, a five year old and a 15 year old or that sort of thing for kids, that's a great place that, Ellen and Dad to go off and do thrill rides, and my mom and I could go and do something else. And that was a great place for us. Even when people have completely different interests than that, that was a great place for us to travel and still be able to entertain other places. When I was, let's see, I think it was six or seven, we went on a cruise down to, like through the Caribbean, um, and that that was really cool. I guess I don't remember a whole ton about some of those. I haven't been out of the country since then. Mostly just traveled, you know, through the continental United States, different places, but so yeah, kind of gone-- I think we've been to, you know, 30 or 40 states trying to see all the different parts of the country. So even though I have lived in a small town, I think it's a strength to live in a small town and be rooted in those values, but also, to have gone out and seen the world in lots of different places and experience different areas of American life.

Yeah, that's great. Um, is there somewhere that you want to travel that you haven't been?

Um, I would like to go overseas to somewhere. I mean, probably, I plan to study abroad in college, and then lots of times, that brings me to Europe. I'd like to see, you know, Italy, France, any of those places over there. But I'd also be interested in going more out like Australia, New Zealand. Some of those places, too, would be interesting. But yeah, mostly American travels for me, but going somewhere else would be cool, too.

Yeah, for sure. Um, do you have a job?

I do not. That was, yeah.

More focused on your schoolwork and things like that?

Yep. My parents has kind of always put an emphasis on schoolwork first, and if you can, maybe during the summer, and those kind of I had some part time jobs during the summer, but mostly I was school was my job. And that allowed me to really focus on my studies. So..

Yeah, that's great. Um, so how would you describe your friend group?

Um, that's interesting. I guess, as I guess I'll start in high school is kind of where it's more important, anyway. When I came up as a freshman, I made it into the top jazz band as a freshman, which meant that it was a pretty old band. So that meant there were a lot of seniors There are a lot of big senior leaders that I looked up to. So actually, during freshman year, I'd say I hung out with juniors and seniors, probably more than I did people in my own grade. That was kind of an interesting time for me just because I was like, I felt like I was maturity wise, more in line with those people. But then, you know, trying to balance also, I don't want to, like completely abandon my friends for my age group. And as of, you know, went through sophomore and junior year, kind of slowly, I'd always kind of been friends with the the seniors of that class because I felt like I usually identify more with older people. And most of my friends that I, you know, would hang out with, and sophomore and junior year were the great above me, both because in elementary school, I had skipped a grade for a while, then I redid a grade to come back to the people that were in my grade, because I really wanted to be with some of those people. But anyway, I had learned that those people existed and kind of met them and made friends with those people. So when we are in high school, it was really easy for me to be like, "Hey, I know you are already" and do that.

Also, um, through scouting, there were several older people who were, you know, the grade above me or a couple grades older than me, who were big influences. So when I started the senior year, it's been really weird, because I mean, I'd say 85% of the people that I hung out with were at least a grade older than me. So as a senior, when everyone is graduated, it's been a little bit weird. Um, but I certainly have, you know, several close friends in my class, but fewer than in other classes, I would say.

Yeah. Um, so, if you were guys, were gonna get together, what would you guys do?

Um, so most of the people that I hang out with are in the music program. So it would not be uncommon for us to hang out, um, after some sort of, you know, a jazz band performance or that sort of thing. So we kind of have a common bond through that stuff. So, um, honestly, most of the time that we'd spend together would either be something with music, go over to someone's house, and someone would have, you know, ping pong table, video game console, that sort of thing. But a lot of the time that I would spend with friends would either be, you know, at someone's house doing that sort of thing, or big outdoor kind of activities.

A couple of my closest friends were through scouting. And I think that bonding through doing those different kinds of activities like backpacking in the wilderness, or canoeing 165 miles down the Missouri River was another thing we did. Those kind of activities allow people to bond in a way that nothing else can really match. So I think those are kind of the two kinds of activities that my friends and I would be doing together, I guess.

Yeah. Um, how do you all stay in touch?

So during COVID, you mean?

In general, either or--

Okay. In general, I guess, for, you know, freshmen through junior year, you know, Snapchat, texting, all that sort of thing. Um, cause, I mean, we hang out-- we hung out in person, we're always through school and everything. Um, and there were enough times that I would be busy with, you know, some sort of activity after school, that there wasn't always a lot of time for like, spend a whole day with your friends or whatever, that really wasn't as much of a thing for me. Um, but in the evenings going over to someone's house, that sort of thing was always kind of a thing that would be possible. And then during COVID it kind of become more reliance on like, playing online video game and calling each other and talking about stuff, or, you know, we get together but do like, I went out to canoe at Prairie Rose [State Park] a couple times, or kayak it for a rose a couple times. This is a local Lake, you know, and try to stay far apart and that sort of thing, which it's been a little difficult during COVID, because I'm sure we'll get into that, but because other people are at school. So, it's harder for me to stay in contact with other people in the same way. But I've stayed in contact with people that are already graduated quite a bit, that are doing online classes, just like I am so you know, after a class, they're done calling up and playing something together, that sort of thing is kind of the main way I'm staying in contact with people right now.

Yeah, that's great. Um so now we're going to get into some questions about the pandemic, a little bit about how you perceive it. So, whatever you think. There is no right or wrong answer here.

Sure.

Um, so when would you say you first found out about COVID-19?

Well, let's see, it seems like forever ago, right?

This spring-- So another interest of mine is politics. And I listen to like political podcasts and videos on YouTube and that sort of thing. So even as the stories were just starting to break in February, and, you know, late January, when people were just starting to hear about this thing was in China and that sort of thing. I was at least familiar with the existence of it. Um, and it's funny, I remember listening to one of those podcasts in my car during February. And I was already getting so tired of like, every day I turn onto this thing, and I all I hear about is COVID. And that was in February. [laughs] And that is a certainly not see sense. But anyway, yeah, that's kind of how I heard about it at first, but then, later in school, we had some, like informational sessions, which at the time, I was like, what's the point of this? Like, it's not going to be a big deal. Because at the time, we didn't really know, you know, how transmissible it was that sort of thing. But then, you know, two weeks later, we were out of school, and I was online. So it kind of happened super, super fast. We got out like, second week of March, something like that.

So yeah, that's kind of how I first learned about it.

Yeah, um, who did you first talk about the pandemic with?

Um, probably my parents. I had also mentioned it to like some people at school, just like, what's the deal with this thing? Is-- How big a deal is it really going to be? Because I mean, we just really didn't know at the time no one really knew. And it's funny looking back, because some people were like, "oh, there's no way we're going to be out of school. And there's no way this is going to be a huge deal."

But I mean, at the time, I was kind of in the middle, I was like, This definitely could be depending on how it goes. But I mean, I didn't have any information to back that up at the time. So but I wasn't super surprised, I guess, when we went all online, but at the same time, I didn't see, you know, no one saw it coming.

Yeah. So one of the first things I remember is the shortages of products of like toilet paper, and things like that. What did you think of all of that?

I guess I was kind of torn on that. At the time, I felt like people were panicking a little bit more than necessary in terms of stuff running out. The, because we had bought a freezer full of food, like in case we could-- we froze loaves of bread and jugs of milk in case we couldn't get to the store. And we bought, like, not as much as some people, but we bought a lot of extra, you know, toilet paper, hand sanitizer, that sort of stuff. Which I mean, at the time, at the time, seemed like was super necessary, and in hindsight, probably wasn't. Because at least locally, our stores were pretty well stocked, relatively quickly, within a few weeks of stuff breaking out. Um, but yeah, I think looking back, people were a little bit more panicky than they could have been about specifically the, the shortage of supplies, because that didn't end up being as big a deal as we thought it was going to be.

Yeah. Um, so you talked about listening to political podcasts and things like that, um, what were your impressions of how the media was covering the pandemic.

So-- at the time, or now, or both,

Back then.

Back then I didn't really see one way or the other how it was really portrayed. When the stuff start first started to break, I was a little skeptical of the severity of what some people were claiming, um, because it's very easy to, you know, be very alarmed about things to get to get views or ratings on different you know, shows about different things, you know, such and such candidate is going to destroy the country in a year and or whatever and that sort of thing. So I was a little skeptical at first. And I think as the pandemic has progressed, the media coverage of the Coronavirus has increasingly become more and more partisan, which is just sad to me. Um, but that's my opinion that it started out relatively factual-- here's what people need to do to be safe during this thing. Um, but as science developed and we knew more and more about the pandemic, it seemed like some people were having this, we're having on both sides of the aisle having an irrational, either fear of the virus that, you know, we're going to have black death kind of thing is or that this thing is no big deal at all. We shouldn't be out of school, we shouldn't wear masks, it's all a big hoax. And I think the truth is definitely somewhere in the middle, and the media on one side, try to cover it like, it's, you know, democratic completely made up kind of BS thing that, and then on the other side, that anyone that doesn't wear a mask 100% of the time is, you know, want to express elevator to hell, and this whole thing is terrible. Um, and I just feel like, the more as time has dragged on, people have become more and more partisan. So

Yeah, um, how do you see politicians approaching this subject?

So I think when we look at the Coronavirus, you have to look at it in two separate facets, in terms of political, I think you have to look at their actions and their words. And I think that the actions that the that our president and congress and in general, most governors have taken have been pretty good, especially on the federal level, have taken the right precautions, they've gotten the PPE [Personal Protection Equipment] to people, they got ventilators out, they encourage people to wear masks and get online for schools and everything, especially last semester. However, I think the actions of some politicians, particularly in larger cities, and especially in like New York City [and], California, have been pretty extreme in terms of lockdown policy. And in my opinion, the lockdown policies that are currently implemented in large cities like that are not, are not feasible or not good for people. Because there's a lot of, you know, secondary things that are caused by being locked down, both economically, mental health, physical health, all these things, when people can't live their lives normally.

Um, but then outside of what people have actually done, the, I guess, the words said, by, by politicians have been pretty awful throughout this thing. I think. I'm a supporter of the President, I'm going to vote for him. But the, the way that he talked about COVID, and it talks about the members of the medical community, I think, is absolutely stupid and foolish. The-- I think he has done a lot of good things, but he said a lot of bad things. And that's been true to every part of his presidency, but especially during COVID that came to the forefront because when people were in a, you know, a time of, you know, of strife, whether it's a war or pandemic, they kind of look to the look to the top for some leadership. And I don't think that he-- he had a really good opportunity to show the American people that he could step up, and, you know, say, and unify people. And he didn't take that chance. He-- I think he did the right things, but he said the wrong things. But, um, honestly, I think what he's done in terms of Coronavirus, besides what he said has been good. Um, and then governors and the mayors of those big cities have made some pretty bad calls in terms of policies that they pursued, especially in the in the more recent months as we've drove on through COVID.

So, um, you mentioned secondary effects. So like, what kind of secondary effects of a complete lockdown would you be concerned about?

So, um, I mean, the obvious one is the economic that, I guess, pre COVID, we were in some of the most prosperous times economically that we've seen in decades. And then by shutting down, we were sacrificing a lot of that, which definitely, at some, at some level is definitely necessary. When we locked everything down for a while, that was probably good needed to flatten the curve, that sort of thing. But as it's drawn on, eventually people need to get back to work. The reality-- The reality is we're not going to be able to contain the pandemic 100% and people that are healthy and able to go out and have an extremely low you know, system ability to serious, you know, serious problems from COVID need to be out. We to protect the vulnerable for sure, but we need to be out starting to work if you're not in close proximity with other people. And I guess that's how I would look at that part.

But outside of the economics, a lot of people by staying inside the entire time, there's a lot of mental health issues, suicide rates are up, drug use is up, all the sorts of things that are indicative of the mental health crisis that we have in America anyway, are exacerbated by COVID. And the fact that people are locked in their homes. Other things, I guess, the schools being shut down, for a lot of people, myself included, it doesn't bother me as much as having to do classes online. But for another big subset of people, that's a very difficult process for them to learn in, especially people that are more interested in you know, [physical] things and industrial technology, all those sorts of things. Or even for students who are, you know, more visual learners need to be in a class doing hands on things in order to learn, it's a very difficult time for them if they have to be completely online. So those are kind of some of the secondary effects I would say that are caused by the lockdown.

Yeah, that's great. Um, see, you mentioned school. Um, so when the pandemic was first rolling around, and you heard that schools might have to shut down, did you think it would actually happen?

Um, I did, I wasn't super doubtful of schools getting shut down, especially at first semester, you know, march through May of last year, I kind of expected us to not go back to school people were saying, we're going to be out for six weeks now. It's like, now we're not coming back this semester. But this semester, I wasn't so sure. Um, I kind of just had to watch the numbers and see how things went. But I'm still on board. I think that I mean, I'm kind of torn, to be honest with the the situation with the school. On one hand, I recognize that a lot of people that are going to school currently are going to get COVID. And they're going to spread it on to their family members and the people who are vulnerable.

But on the other hand, you have to recognized that eventually people, it's we're going to have to pursue herd immunity one way or the other. And not sure it's feasible to wait for a vaccine, um, for a lot of people. And I guess, for me, personally, I think that this being online stuff is not affected me in like an academic in any, you know, serious way, but for other people, it's impacted them a lot. And I kind of I wasn't like, I didn't really expect that to continue all the as long as it has. But at the same time, I think it probably, I mean, needs to in some in some respects.

Yeah. Um, and as the school looked at planning for the fall semester, whether it be in person or online or hybrid, what would-- what did you think would be the best course of action?

I think at the time I was for going online for at least a little bit longer. Um, and I still strongly disagree with the idea that we're going to go back to school point if for all five days of the week. I don't think that's a good way to mitigate for-- because that's how our school is handling and currently is that everyone except for people who explicitly decided to go online everyone has a school five days a week and I just feel like that is an on-- that's just not not as safe as it could be. I think a hybrid model would have been a good idea a lot of schools are doing you know 50% of capacity on some days and then they zoom in on the other day is that that kind of action or otherwise, you can you know, strongly encourage people who are able to stay at home to stay at home um, you know, the people who are either because of like socioeconomically they have the, you know, they have their parents have to go to work and they can't be at home by themselves that sort of thing. Or people that just will not-- people with special needs are those people who need to be at school in order to learn could go in, but people that are able to stay at home and do electronically would do that could be another option. But I don't really-- I'm not really on board with how the our school board is currently handling the all-- everyone at school all the time kind of thing.

Yeah, um, do you think that more students voices should have been involved in the process?

Um, I mean, yes, but at the same time, they're high school students, and a lot of high school students can barely function anyway. And they're-- that's why we have adults in charge. That is because the vast majority of high schoolers don't really know what they're doing general. And I think that they have, you know, certainly a lot of agency and what they're going to do, but a lot of people just aren't educated in the issues or what we should really do. Although, I mean, they did send a send out a survey for like families to fill out about what they're comfortable with, and that sort of thing, when we were thinking about going back to school, and that was a good thing.

But there's kind of, as we've gone on, we've experienced this phenomenon where, you know, the squeaky wheel, the people who are super, adamantly opposed to, you know, all forms of masking, that wearing a mask you're going to die, and it's terrible, and everything's horrible, and it's all hoax, and everything. Those people are very, you know, expressed in the community, they're very loud, they're going to the school board meetings, and, you know, having that whole thing, and the people who are, you know, in the 80%, in the middle who aren't super, you know, who are reasonably, um, reasonably scared of the virus in the sense that you're not going to be stupid about it, but also not so, you know, not so scared of it, that you're going to lock yourself in that house for the next five years, that you have a 1% chance of dying from it either. And those people aren't being as outspoken as they should be. Because I think that the the minority of people who are kind of on the fringes of beliefs about COVID are the ones that people hear about. So that's kind of an issue.

Absolutely, um, and what was your reaction when the plan was first released?

Um, well, at first, we did do a hybrid model, which I think was I think we were actually on decent, decent policy at the beginning, where we had A days and B days, and you're either an A student or a B student, and you go in on those certain days, and those other days, you're supposed to do homework for those classes, or zoom in, depending on the class. And I think that was the best. That was maybe a good compromise for people, just some people need to be in school, and some people need to stay away. And that was a good way for the most people to be, you know, taken care of. But after a few weeks, the school board changed their decision and went went full, you know, in person. And I still disagree with that decision. I don't think that was the best choice for both the students and for the surrounding community.

Because, um, Harlan has a pretty like, aged community, there are a lot of elderly people on people with pre existing conditions in the community. And a lot of people that go to school are in close contact with their grandparents or with people who, you know, have some sort of amino, you know, condition that's going to compromise them. And the, just the idea that we'd send everyone to school all at once doing their activities with mass required, but not really enforced. A lot of people wearing, you know, the cloth masks that don't offer as much protection or the net gators, which don't do a whole lot, as we found out, and I just think that we've not handled that super well as a school district.

Yeah, um, some people have said that the hybrid model slowed down learning because the same lesson was being taught two days in a row. What do you think of that perspective?

Um, I think when people think that that the teachers are not doing the right kind of thing for a hybrid learning program, um, last semester, I took or, yeah, last semester, so second semester of last year, I took four or five college level classes online. And Mr. Boysen, who is the high-level math teacher at our school would do zoom classes for like three or four classes every day. And I think that that is the the way that things should be taught with a hybrid model is that they do a new lesson every day, but half the people are zooming into it. So the people that are in class are seeing the same lesson as the people on zoom, and each day has a new thing, not the you're going half the time, which is what some people have interpreted that as. And I just see that as a way that teachers aren't as well informed about how they should try to plan their curriculum for a hybrid model. Yeah,

Yeah, it's all new. New for everyone,

For sure.

Um, let's see. So, I know that your personal situation is unique from other people's in the community.

Yes.

Can you tell me a little bit about that?

Um, so let's see when was it? June, I think, June or July, um, my father was diagnosed with stage four colon cancer. And so that was, you know, obviously, great shock to the family. And that was been a whole, you know, thing. And he's been on chemotherapy. For the past two-- I think he started in August, so pretty much right before school started to now and he's still on chemo. So that's kind of the main reason that I've been at home this whole time is just, you know, if my father gets COVID, he has-- I mean, the point of chemo is to knock your immune system down, and that sort of kills rapidly dividing cells, so he would not have a great way to fight the virus. So we've had to be extremely careful about who we're coming into contact with, what events we're going to that sort of thing. So relatively isolated from, you know, from the school system from going to big events, any sort of that thing, wearing a mask everywhere we go. So that's kind of the situation for us home. Um, so my father has that. And then my mother also has, you know, psoriatic arthritis. So she has plaque psoriasis, which is a, you know, immune compromised disease, and also take some medicine that knocks your immune system down to help combat that. So both my parents are at higher risk for, you know, having damage from COVID. So I've had to be pretty careful in as this senior year come around, which has been difficult for sure. Um, and, but, I mean, I'm glad I'm not at college right now, I guess, trying to do that. But at the same time, you know, missing out in your senior year having to do, you know, not be able to do marching band not being able to do a lot of the activities I would normally be doing, going into any of the football games, as our team has an undefeated season, and that sort of stuff is, you know, pretty difficult. But, you know, that's what we got, we got to do for family. So that's kind of our situation.

How do you-- Is there any way that you try to keep involved with anything with everything at school.

So school activities that I mostly do, were music oriented, and I was not able to do marching band in a safe way this year, just because of, you know, the way that it's conducted. And a couple things with that, I guess, instead, I'm still technically enrolled in band, but instead of going in, I'm actually composing pep band, or arranging pep band songs for our band director. I have a music arranging software and a keyboard that I can connect to a computer. And I've been doing that as sort of an alternative for going in traditionally. And then the other thing is, what, three weeks ago, I think, the end of the marching band season, the marching band surprised me and everyone drove out to my house out in the country and put on a marching band [show]. Oh, I got to play with everyone. At the end of the season, and that was a, that was a great experience, I guess they had some community leaders come out and tell some stuff and played some, you know, played marching band [and] pep band songs for everyone. And that was a, that was exciting, just because I hadn't been able to do that for the whole, you know, semester. That was, that was a big deal to me. So that was kind of another way that that was able to get involved at least once with that.

In terms of schooling, I'm taking four classes, three of which are college classes, so it still makes me a full time student. But um, so one of those college bio classes fully conducted online, which is how it's intended to be conducted anyway, like, recorded lecture as homework online, all that sort of thing. Then two classes, I zoom into the high school for zoom in for a film class, and I zoom in for college English, which is like comp [Composition I] Oh, whatever it is, it's freshman level composition. Um, so I zoom into those classes live. And then a lot of time I'll either have like work time on the days that I don't go in and that sort of thing. And then the other class I'm taking is a college chemistry class, which is kind of a little bit different. I do online most of the time, but then I go in for labs, there's only like, eight people in the class and everyone's required to wear masks. So it's pretty safe and socially distant. So that's kind of how I'm doing it right now, anyway.

Yeah, um, can you tell me what a typical day of online learning would look like for you?

Sure, it kind of depends, I try to, say, one day, I'll do a whole bunch of biology one day, I'll do a whole bunch of chemistry and that kind of thing. But I try to set aside blocks of time just for the learning, just for doing school. Um, my first the zoom class I had to zoom into is at 10:30. So I get up a little bit before, like, you know, hour or two before that, and try to get some learning done and be up in time to, you know, do my class. After that, I, you know, have some lunch. And then, during the afternoon, I'm able to do a lot of the self paced work for my biology class. And then for my chemistry class, I can listen to the lectures at my convenience and do those-- reading the textbooks, that kind of thing. And then I'm usually done, you know, maybe 4:30, or 5:00 is usually when I stop, although sometimes I'll, if I have something coming up, I'll go later. So

Yeah, um, how would you say for yourself, do you think you're handling all these changes?

Well, I think Yeah, for the most part, I think-- I don't know. It was tougher at the beginning, just adjusting to stuff online. But honestly, I learn not that much worse, especially if the class is like, well constructed to be, you know, taken online, if it had the stuff set up, well, then I really don't learn much worse from a free recorded lecture than I do from a live lecture. The only problems arise when you like, have a question or that sort of thing. It's not like immediate ask the teacher, which is a little difficult sometimes. But I think for the most part, the online school hasn't been much of an issue for me.

The main thing is, is just like missing going to school with, you know, with peers, and being able to do activities and talk to people during class. And those kinds of things is what I kind of miss. And I can't-- a lot of people are counting having semi normal lives during this time. Because they're fully in school and doing activities outside of school. So I do feel, you know, like, I'm missing out on quite a bit. But at the same time, everyone I talked to is like, you're going to look back on this, and you're not going to care that you missed this stuff at high school, in five or 10 years. So I kind of try to keep it in perspective, I could be in a lot worse situation than I am. And, yeah, I mean, me having to do school online, and miss marching band is nothing compared to some of what people are going through right now. So,

Yeah. Do you think there's ever a point where you might be able to go back to school? Or do you plan to just finish out the year online?

I mean, unless something radically changes, I'll probably be online the rest of the year. My dad will finish up his first bout of chemo about the beginning, like the end, like, basically the end of the semester. So depending on how his results are, I might be able to do some stuff in person during second semester, but I'm not holding my breath on [next semester].

I guess, next year, when I go to college, obviously, I will be you know, doing whatever the college is doing because I won't be in the same household as my parents, I'll be able to, you know, go off into pretty normal stuff. So I kind of got to keep it a perspective that it's just for this year, and it's not going to be that big a deal. But yeah, I don't expect to be back fully in person, but I'm going to try to do jazz band in person. Which is going to be like kind of a really nice change for me anyway, because I'll be able to go in every day and see some people even though we have to be spread far apart, and you know, that kind of thing. At least there'll be some social interaction. So it'll be nice.

Yeah, that's fantastic. Um, how are they doing the jazz band this year? I haven't heard about it.

Sure.

Yeah, so normally, we're in the middle school jazz room which I have no idea what the measurements are but it's a pretty it's a pretty big room. And normally we would be on one side with like risers for the horns and then a rhythm section next to it. But um, this year, we're going to going to spread way out into the like, just like individual people spread way out into the bandroom. And because I'm piano player, I'll can stay away from the horns pretty easily. I'll be kind of put in the corner with then the bass and the drums you know, how far you know. 10 feet apart for me, and then everyone's spread out further, with both a bell cover and a mask. And then all the rhythm section people will have masks on as well. So even though they're blowing, you know, through an instrument, I think it should be a relatively safe activity. So I'm looking forward to that. That should be a nice change.

Yeah, for sure.

So, I have one last question on school. And this one is a little longer. Um, so many networks, including the New York Times to BBC, and POLITICO has speculate that the 2020 and 2021 school year will be a lost year, because students will likely fall behind for years to come. And according to these media outlets, the learning loss could be profound, especially in low socio economic communities who have access to fewer resources. And many politicians are especially worried about standardized test scores, which affects schools ratings and fundings. As a student yourself, what do you think of the media's idea of a lost school year?

I don't think that's entirely accurate. Um, I think there's some truth to that, certainly, that people are not going to be able to perform the same way they would as if they were at school, um, especially for people who are already struggle with learning in general, to put them online is just going to further, you know, make that worse. But I think in general, that's not going to be as big of a deal as that is portraying. I mean, I think losing one year of your, your school education is not going to, and you're not even entirely losing it, you're still going to school, even if you're getting, you know, 75% of what you'd normally get out of school, you're still getting, you know, the majority of what you're would normally get out of school. And I don't think that you should look at it as an entirely last year. And if you look at look at it, that way, that you're setting yourself up for failure.

Um, I don't know, I can see I can see the argument that in places that already struggle with funding or struggle with those areas that they're going to lose on on lower test scores and that sort of thing. But I think that: One, of the policies are going to be adjusted to account for that on and Two, when people go to apply to colleges now, like most of them are test optional right now. ayway. Actually, all on that I've applied to have been test optional. So I don't see that being a big issue for people going forward. Because they're going to say, "Oh, I took this ACT roll during COVID, So I had a little bit lower score" and colleges will be, I mean, colleges do a lot more holistic analysis of applications now than they did you know, even five years ago. So I don't see that being a big issue as like that they're portraying right there as big of an issue, I guess.

Yeah. All right. So we've definitely covered a lot of ground today talking about what has already happened. So I want to look a little bit into the future. So thinking about your plans for the future, before the pandemic, how have those plans changed?

I don't think my plans for the future have really changed much during the pandemic. Um, I guess the the main thing that has changed is just like, my dad's situation, obviously, was different. And how that will look in the future. But outside of that for myself, in terms of, you know, career, college, family, you know, all that sort of thing, I don't see that as really having changed. The only difference is that I had a senior year, that was a lot different than I thought it would look like. But I still plan to go to college, I still plan to go into med school, you know, have a family, that sort of thing. I don't think any of that has really changed with COVID. And honestly, I don't think a lot of people's plans have particularly changed because of COVID besides just looking a little bit different than how they would have provided there wasn't a pandemic. But if you were to ask me, where do you see yourself five years from now in March, and now? I don't think it would look a lot different, to be honest.

Yeah. Um, so at this point, and it's okay, if you don't know yet. What are your plans for after graduation?

So I'm-- A great-- One of the good things that has occurred during 2020 is I applied for this scholarship called the Coolidge scholarship, which is a nationally prestigious scholarship, which-- It's like need blind, you know, gender, race, it doesn't really look at any of those as outside factors. It's just based on your academic performance. You're-- Like an interview your beliefs that are in line-- it's based on President Calvin Coolidge. So whether your beliefs align with, like, some of his general beliefs, and just like looking at a holistic, you know, all your accomplishments and that sort of thing. And I was selected as one of the four people in the country that was awarded that scholarships. So that was very exciting for me. And so that scholarship allows me to-- It pays for tuition or room and board and expenses for all four years for any college in the country. So that's very exciting, but also means that I have a lot of options in terms of college and where to go to. So trying to narrow down what place is going to be best for me, both from a academics perspective, and then from a social perspective, has been pretty difficult. Um, I still have about, you know, 10 or 12 colleges that I have on my list that I think I'm going to apply to, and then kind of make my decision from there.

What's hard about COVID, with specifically looking at colleges is that you can't go into 99% of colleges to take a visit. I know a lot of people when they choose a college, they're like, "I want to call it this college. And I felt like I belonged. Like I was part of a family," and I can't really do that right now, which is a little hard. But so yeah, my plan is to go to a four-year university, which I guess that scholarship makes it a lot easier from a financial perspective. But then after that, I plan to go to a medical school. And right now I'm thinking surgery as like a residency program. And then, you know, maybe more specifically into a, you know, a more specific subset of surgery, but I don't really know exactly what that looks like yet for me. Um, but yeah, so that's my, that's my plan academically, I guess. But then I don't want to be just a career person, I guess I, you know, plan to find someone in college and try to, you know, at least have a partner through that. So that's kind of my other goal, I guess. But that's, that's the plan.

Um, congratulations on that scholarship. That's fantastic.

Thank you. Yes.

It must be a huge relief not to have to worry about [the financial aspects of college]

For sure. Yeah. I mean, as much as it was a pain to like, fill out the applications for all these colleges. I've only I have filled out one scholarship application. And that's the only one I'm going to fill out. So that's, that's good. That was a nice time saver, for sure. And headache saver. So yeah,

Um, out of the schools that you're looking at, do you have like a number one, like dream school?

Not really. So that's kind of uh, yeah, that's, that's a little bit of an issue is that I, I've never really had a college that I'm like, man, if I could only get to this college, then I would definitely go there. Um, so I guess I have some colleges out east, like I put Princeton and Harvard on the list as like, you know, you know, high Echelon schools, but not, but perhaps not, as in line with my personal beliefs on lots of different things. But then I had a couple different ones in Texas, two colleges in Chicago, a couple out west, so kind of all over the country, I guess. Because location isn't as much of a concern for me as just like whether the school is going to be good for me. So I guess, I'm just struggling with deciding which of those fits me the best, but we'll figure it out.

Yeah, for sure. Um, what degree do you plan to pursue for your undergrad?

So I want-- so because I plan to go into med school, I'll have some sort of a, you know, a science background, at least in some capacity. But the other thing I want to continue to do in college is to do my piano music studies. Um, so some colleges, they would recommend doing a second major, some would recommend doing a music minor, some have like a general just program that you'd enroll in, not for a degree, but just to like, continue doing music in college. So I'll see what that means that you should University, but I kind of plan to do both a science and a music thing.

But then I also want to continue, you know, taking, you know, more classical, classically liberal education. I'm really interested in, you know, politics, history, all those poli sci [political science], psychology, all those kind of different disciplines that are more, you know, not as career based. But just really interesting, and I think makes you into a more well-rounded person in general. So I plan to take a lot of those classes in college as well.

Yeah, for sure those humanities classes, as a humanities major, [I think] they're pretty good.

All right. Last question. Before we wrap up, was there anything that I didn't ask you that you wish I would have?

Not really. I don't know-- You kind of covered all the bases.

Great!

Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Um, so I want to say thank you very much for taking the time to do this interview with me. I think I've learned a lot from you. You've given me some really great information today.

Thank you

So, thank you. I'll go ahead and stop the recording.