Amanda Gomez Interview, October 22, 2021

This is an interview with Amanda Gomez.

The interviewer is Elinor Aspegren.

The time is about 4:02 on Friday, October 22nd.

The location is TheirStory.

Amanda is in Mount Pleasant and

Elinor is a Van Ness.

Amanda, thank you so much for

joining us.

Do you mind if I record?

I asked you before, but do you mind if I record this interview I

do not mind if you record this interview.

Okay, awesome.

So I have a whole bunch of

questions, we'll start, kind of, with beginning of life stuff and

how you became a journalist (unintelligible) and how that all

came to be.

Does that sound good?

Yeah.

Sorry, one second because my

window because I'm hearing a lot of background noise.

Okay, no more street noise.

You were saying?

Yeah.

Well, so we can start with the

first question, which is: Where were you born?

Can you tell me a little bit about where you grew up?

Sure, so I was born in a Monterey Park, California suburb, but I was

really raised in East Los Angeles and moved there with my mom.

My mom and I moved in with my grandmother in her house in East

LA, when I was about—God, how old are you when you were in the fifth

grade? However, old that is.

It's like (pause) Eleven, maybe? I would say that my formative

years were in East LA.

Can you tell me a little bit about

growing up in East LA? What was that like?

Sure, so East LA We call a little Little Mexico.

Like little TJ, really, little Tijuana.

So it is like a 98%—I think that's probably changing—it's getting

more diverse, but it's like probably like over—the majority is

definitely Latinx.

And everyone is pretty much

Spanish-speaking.

I again grew up with my mom.

It's just myself and her, except I did have like a massive extended

family.

I lived with my grandmother and

then actually we have like—like almost probably a commune—It's

like three houses back-to-back, and my aunt lived in the front

house with her two daughters, and my other aunt lived in the back

house with her five boys.

And so it was a lot of extended

family around.

Cool.

What does your mom do? She is a county employee so she

works for the Los Angeles County.

She is a secretary for a lawyer

essentially who—I guess they're all lawyers, but they're like

county government officials and she is their management secretary.

How—I mean, you talked about this huge extended family.

How did that influence your journalism career and how did that

influence how you've grown up? How did my upbringing influence my

journalism, my career? I guess I would say that I was,

like, I guess so like I was very social because I was always with

my extended family.

I think this like perception of

only children it's like it's just that, I mean, it is just that and

so you're kind of social.

I guess I could kind of [say] the

negative stereotype is like selfish and just like with quiet

by themselves, but having been raised with my entire extended

family.

It was a very collaborative

environment—I was and so I was always kind of an age wise, I

would say smack down in the middle.

So kind of always advocating for my space in the family and my kind

of negotiating my space, was definitely those are I think

skills that can be translated into journalism like having to be very

social and like always, yeah, so I think in that kind of way maybe I

really thought about that.

Yeah, definitely.

Did you always want to be a journalist or were there other

career options that you thought about?

I actually, I, I mean, I was a journalism major in undergrad.

I knew pretty early on in high school that I wanted to become a

journalist.

I was very curious when I was

younger.

I always like I was just

constantly, like the cousin who asked a lot of questions amongst

the family, like I, that was just kind of talking, talking talking

and just questions, questions, questions.

And then [I] got involved in journalism from high school.

And yeah, I wanted—I knew I wanted to do it.

So [the desire to be a journalist] was very early on, which is like

strange.

Yeah.

Do you remember like a specific moment or like moments where

you're like "a ha, this is what I want to do for the rest of my

life?" I don't think it was a moment per se.

I think it was, I think honestly if there was all moment, it was

like (pause) I was like in my high school guidance counselor's

[office] who I was actually like really close with and she was

pretty dope.

Miss Virgo.

I even remember her name.

She asked me what I wanted to

declare, like my major, and what I was interested in and I was like.

I had pieced together, like my years, like like, oh, this is

something that I can do in my home.

That was surprisingly—[my mom] like, she watched the news a lot.

Like she always had [unintelligible] on or like CNN.

And so I was just like thinking about what was my interest and

then I just felt like, yeah, journalism.

And then figured I could switch and then kind of just... I never

did.

Awesome.

Yeah, can you—So you went to—Where'd you go to college?

Emerson College.

Oh, cool.

Cool.

Why did you make—I guess that's

kind of seems like a big change from like East LA to Boston.

Yes.

I joke that I've never met like

white people, really until fucking Boston.

Like, I truly my entire, like, upbringing was with, like,

everyone was Asian or Latinx and like that was my upbringing.

And then my, like, I can tell you my first best friend who was

white, like, in college—Sylvia (unintillegible) which is really

funny.

We just kind of, anyways.

Yeah, very big change.

I basically, I couldn't afford—I

was supposed to go to—I applied to NYU and couldn't afford it.

And then Ms. Virgo, who was helping me with my life was like,

"Have you ever heard of ever since Emerson College?" It's like, "no."

And she mentioned that it was not as expensive and also like open

campus and I knew I wanted to like go to the East Coast.

I just wanted something new and I had like maybe romanticized

Gilmore Girls way too much.

And like yeah, I figured I don't

want it to—And then she told me to apply.

Like give it a shot.

And then they offered like a full

scholarship.

And so I went.

Nice.

Did you—were you involved in

journalism? I was.

What was that like for you? Had you been involved in

journalism at your high school? Yes.

Yes, I was.

I was not involved with—we had a

paper [in high school] and in college I was a part of my local

radio station.

So that was a different medium.

And I thought that was when I, when I was there, I was like,

yeah, I was very involved in broadcast journalism, which was a

new experience for me.

But yeah.

Do you have like a specific—Do you like broadcast journalism better

than print journalism? Both?

Neither? I've learned now having, yeah,

worked in every medium that it's not so much the medium than it is

what I'm reporting on.

So, I don't favor one or think

broadcast over, I guess, online or print.

I am mostly.

It's like what I'm what I'm doing.

I know that I like reporting on healthcare I know.

I love reporting on ... I honestly love local news.

I know just types of things that I like to report on.

So yeah, I mean that leads me pretty well into my next question.

You're working right now at Kaiser Health News.

Can you tell me about kind of—this is a very broad question, but can

you tell me about your path from Emerson to your current job?

What was your specific path? So I moved to DC directly after

undergrad.

My first job, technically in DC, I

was actually a hostess at Birch and Barley (unintelligible), a

restaurant in Logan Circle for like, over the summer.

Because after graduation day, I like did that and was trying to

find a gig.

I was like "if I don't find a gig

in journalism, by the end of summer, I'm moving back home."

Thankfully the PBS NewsHour had a desk assistant program and they

accepted me into that.

So that fall I started working at

PBS News which is broadcast, was there for two years, then applied

-- a friend of mine was working at this website called

thinkprogress.org and she liked it a lot of she described the economy

there.

[There were] lot of, like, younger

bosses, who are willing to take a chance on their newer reporters.

And so at the PBS NewsHour it was a very top down structure and this

is -- they were willing to take more chances.

And so I applied on a whim and I got it.

I was healthcare reporter there for two years.

Then I went to the Washington City Paper—again, applied off that kind

of randomly.

Someone at Think Progress had

worked at City Paper and loved it.

So I said, "Sure.

I'll apply," and worked there for about I guess two years.

They're all like one and a half I guess.

And then I applied -- yeah, I applied after having worked in

healthcare at the Progress, and I knew was very well thing (can't

figure out what she says in this).

Those were reporters that I leaned

on a lot when I was there.

Julia Rovner's reporting I knew

well...

At the Washington City paper I was

a general assignment reporter but I was still really focused on

healthcare stories especially with the pandemic.

My first couple stories that for the ones I was very proud of that

City Paper was about healthcare reform.

And so yeah, I was—when Kaiser Health News—there was an

opportunity that arose, I took it.

I'm here now, working at Kaiser.

Nice.

So you—I kind of want to backtrack

a little bit.

You moved to Washington DC right

out of college.

Why did you make that choice?

It sounds like it wasn't like for a specific job.

Yeah, so I did actually—I spent a semester during college in DC.

And I fell in love with the city.

It was funny too, because I now

have a completely different perspective of DC.

I fell in love with what I think of like how people I think across

the country think of it—as (emphasizes) Washington, the

capitol.

I wanted to be a, I thought I

wanted to be a then I was I wanted to be a national reporter.

I wanted to work on Capitol Hill.

I wanted to do that and cover

national politics is what I thought I wanted to do.

And I was doing that at PBS Newshour are covering national

news and covering and doing that kind of work.

So that's why I moved to DC.

I wanted to work somewhere, like

that.

I'm gonna say my opinion has

changed because now that having the PBS NewsHour and having done

that at Think Progress, that kind of national politics and capitol

reporting.

I've realized that I don't enjoy

that as much.

I like policy, but I don't like

the (reporting on) policy impacts on people and kind of explaining

things in that shape.

And then also, I like to sort of

do have a passion for local news.

It's easy to see policy manifest

in that way.

Definitely.

Being a national reporter or working at PBS NewsHour, was that

a different experience from your time working on Emerson's College

newspaper? Absolutely.

I mean, I was a local reporter—it was in the newspaper's radio

station, and I was a local reporter—like WERS was the station

and it was local and I was covering ... I think one of it was

like Whitey Bulger's, like that whole thing.

I remember covering a story that I enjoyed was like reporting out

when I was younger, or at that local radio stations about like

local gangs, like "What is the new gangster?" And that was like the

thing at Emerson or in Boston.

But anyways, yeah, it was.

I was doing local reporting and then I went to PBS Newshour, where

I was in charge of like, national headlines—it was almost like

national and international groups.

At the PBS NewsHour, I remember a

lot of segments that I helped with about Syria and Colombia, and

yeah.

So, it was definitely like the PBS

NewsHour was very helpful in terms of like refining my news

judgement.

Like, I was in charge of

headlines.

Like, I don't know if you've

watched the Newshour before, but it's basically—the top of the show

is about the headlines, like Judy Woodruff would read and Gwen Ifill

would read the top stories.

And I was in charge of helping to

write or identify what were the top news stories of the day, so

that was kind of what I was doing.

Yeah, definitely.

We talked a little bit about how it impacted your news judgement,

but did it impact you in other ways?

Kind of covering national news and...

What do you mean by that? Like impact me personally like ...

I don't understand.

Yeah, like personally—I mean,

speaking from personal experience like going from working on my

local newspaper to covering breaking headlines was

intimidating.

Oh, yeah.

It was, there was a lot of anxiety about like, I remember that when I

was starting off at, I remember there being just like very nervous

all the time.

My direct boss was, he was like,

AP—former Associated Press.

He was just very stern, he was

very stern man.

His name is Russ Clarkson, and I

have a great respect for him, he's helped me a lot in refining my

news judgement.

But I was, yeah, I was very

nervous.

I remember being a production

assistant there, and we do this thing—we call whoever is the

production assistant—we'd rotate weekly who was on call and

responsible feeding him like morning news updates or whatever.

And I remember like we call at eight o'clock in the morning or

7:30 or whatever— you'd be at work by 7—and like me getting angry

because he would then report the top news stories and add a morning

meeting to all of the staff and I was kind of just telling him what

to tell the rest of staff is—anyways, and I had to like

relay information and having a lot of anxiety telling him stuff.

Like, it was very, I don't even recognize her (referring to

herself) with the amount anxiety that I had.

And then finally, I became more confident in my ability to like

say, "Yeah, this is important." And those fears and anxieties kind

of—I mean, I still get little nervous, you know, but I just

remember back I was petrified.

It was very strange when I think

about it.

Definitely, um.

And then how about your transition to the City Paper?

Was that a big transition for you? Or how what was that like?

I think, Think Progress I think—PBS NewsHour, if they gave

me skills, Think Progress gave me a lot of confidence.

I was the healthcare reporting during the Affordable Care Act

repeal and replace time.

And so there was like a lot of

trust given to me.

And then when I was at City Paper,

I had confidence— even though it was an entirely new beat, like

I've never had reported on local DC before.

I knew my council member was like Brandon Todd, but did I really

know—like DC's weird—the governing structure like what the office of

the Attorney General?—it was very intimidating in that way.

But because I had like the kind of skills that one has a journalist

is the kind of how you approach stories, it was doable.

If that makes sense.

So, and then also, I had a great

team, like my boss, Alexa Mills for the City Paper.

Whenever I didn't know something, I was comfortable enough to say "I

don't understand it.

Who's the best person to speak

with on this subject?" or whatever.

She was very supportive.

And I mean she hired me and she

knew I had no experience on reporting on local DC.

Yeah, definitely.

And so you've covered healthcare

for a lot of your tenure—I mean, you're working right now a Kaiser

Health News, which is the pinnacle of healthcare reporting.

Do you think healthcare is your favorite beat?

Like, if you were to do any other beat, what would you do?

I mean, honestly, I'm torn between—I mean, I really enjoy

reporting on health care, but I also really enjoy reporting on

local DC.

I thoroughly enjoy that too.

But yeah, I definitely like both Yeah, if but I know that I could

be reporting on anything else.

Like health is like social

determinants of health... there's so much you could be doing with

that.

I'm most interested in that.

Yeah.

Cool.

We're kind of going to move like a little bit into the before and

after of like, before the pandemic and then after the pandemic—I

really mean like, after like March 11th when the world shut down.

My first questions are like, can you provide details about your

typical day or week at—you were working at the city paper at the

time.

So well, what did [your job] look

like pre-pandemic and then what it looked like post pandemic?

It's kind of a big question.

Sure.

I was always responsible—before and after March 11th, 2020—in

charge of the morning newsletter.

That was my first responsibility.

I had to get it out.

I had to pass—I had to toss copy

to my editor by 10 a.m..

So I was working or thinking about

what the story—what the newsletter was going to be— the news section

was going to be—kind of, in 500 words or less.

Tell readers what the news stories of the day—If you had to know one

thing today, what is it?—And I was responsible for processing copy by

10 a.m.

Sometimes on hard day it was

eleven.

And so, yeah, the morning was

always very rough, I guess sometimes because it was, you

know, I had to be writing and thinking past—sometimes I would

start on the story of the day before.

Before March—when did I start? A couple months, honestly, it was

like.

I started that summer.

So like I started July of... I think it was 2019.

So it was just a couple of months than the pandemic hit and I was

finally, I think getting my bearings where I was little, I was

writing the story in the mornings as opposed to the night before

something that would shake out that way.

Anyways, that was what I would do in the mornings and in the

afternoon, I would be what I call like what softworks.

I was an active writing or like thinking about stories —part of

like the brainstorming there was reading everything online or

making calls, be they on or off the record.

It was just basically getting an expanse of what was happening and

what I should be covering its so yeah.

With the morning.

I was ultra productive and was

like publishing publishing like, you know, and then the afternoon

would kind of settle and and less... yeah.

And then [there would be] some editor meetings on Thursdays after

we published our weekly paper where we'd kind of go over what

the hell our alt-weekly looked like.

We'd kind of comment on what we did well and what the next week

will look like but that's generally how it be.

Cool.

I realized I forgot a question and

before we go to post March—If you, if you could go back and tell your

younger self —just like, I mean when they're walking out of your

college counselor's office, basically when they have the

thought of having decided that we're going to pursue a career in

journalism.

If you could tell your younger

self anything about your path or their path, what would you tell

them? I would tell them that— I would

tell them that.

Journalism.

That your job isn't—that your job isn't everything.

You are not your job and that you should have a back-up plan.

I say that having in terms of like—thinkprogress.org is now

under.

I had friends who were laid off

there.

I don't mean like a back-up plan

as in like, escaping out of journalism though that is

definitely like I have that kind of contingency plan.

But like, do I have savings, do you have a good amount in your

savings, can you work elsewhere what are your options if I can

organize—I just always just make sure you I think savings [is the

most important thing].

Just know you are not your job to

do so if it falls through you have some cushion.

Yeah, that there was a lot of, I had a lot of anxiety during that

time when I was watching and I was in part why I applied at

Washington City Paper, (unintelligible).

And I was just like, "I need to be applying, I can see this

crumbling.

I need to get out."

I landed thankfully at the Washington City Paper a couple of

months before they officially pulled the plug.

They kind of give us an off ramp like, they saw it coming, but I

remember having so much anxiety and I think it was because I was

like "Well.

I'm journalism.

What if my—this is a core part of who I am."

But then during that time, I realized "Like no. You are other

things.

You'll make it, you're going to be

fine." So that's something that I

would—it's something I would keep in mind that I'm not just a

[journalist].

I'm not a journalist tomorrow

that's fine.

Cool.

Yeah, cool, so we can move to the kind of talking about COVID and

your coverage of COVID now if you're—if you're all good with

that.

Do you remember where you were

when you first heard about COVID? Or when you first covered COVID.

I was in the office.

I was at the Washington City Paper

office.

I like—when I first—I think I was

like I read about it from—I've always been an avid reader of like

that Stat News and I think I've read it from like Helen Branswell

like talking about it.

(aside) Yeah, that's her last

name.

They had mentioned that this was

like, "Something was happening!" like in January and then in

February, I was like, Maybe this is something?" I remember, (aside)

God, when was my first COVID story?

I wrote about hospitals, like if our hospitals are prepared.

God.

I like want to—now I'm curious.

I like (searching) Are hospitals ready for COVID Washington City

Paper... I want to say it was early—Oh, yeah, I mean, are

hospitals prepared.

Oh, yeah, it was okay, March 24th.

So anyways, so I remember yeah, I remember reading about it from

healthcare reporters, who specialized in this beat.

And then I remember going to a press conference like the mayor's

press conference on COVID at the Wilson building and then it was

like "Oh, this is like serious." Like.

Yeah.

It wasn't my first story that made

COVID real for me.

It was like, then going to the

mayor's press conference and that was like Mid-march, and being

like, oh shit.

Yeah, definitely.

Do you? When did your newsroom shut down?

Or like, not shut down.

But like, went remote?

Yeah, I think it was that.

I mean, I remember, I think it was

whenever the mayor declared a public health emergency like

that—Yeah, it was or whenever it was.

They were like "We cannot [unintelligible]."

It was that week or it was whenever that happened.

I can't even give you a day, but it was very quick.

Our newsroom was very, like—as soon as it became evident that we

shouldn't be like crowding around one another and like it was like

that.

Our office went remote.

Do you remember like specific thoughts that went through your

head when you were told that you were going to be remote?

I assume it was said it was only for a couple weeks.

I mean I thought it was—I mean it felt really surreal.

But I also I remember—by that point when they had said it I

would have been speaking with like I owe for the story about

hospitals.

Like I was already speaking to us

of a couple of like healthcare providers who were like, this is

serious until I was I mean, I did not think it would be more than a

couple of weeks ago, but I remember being like, oh this is

this is like this is no joke.

Okay.

I don't remember being like, oh whatever.

Like I remember me.

Yeah.

Oh, this is a little nerve-racking.

Okay, like oh shit.

And what immediately changed for

you in terms of your productivity—your work week—when

you went remote and were in quarantine?

So your question is did being affect my productivity?

Yeah, it's more like yeah, what did what happened—like, how did

your work week change from the pre-pandemic times?

I mean honestly, it became very became very stressful in that the

news was clearly the coronavirus and like, for example—we had

intended like the paper's issue is going to be about—It was like the

week after—I guess the week that the mayor—(to herself) When did

the mayor declare a public health emergency?

Sorry whenever Bowser declared a public— (searching) Bowser

declares public health emergency over pandemic.

Okay.

Yeah, March 11.

So then it must have been the next week—our issue was about—because

then she started like closing or rather like everyone—like, events

started to get cancelled.

And so the week's issue like the

upcoming Thursday issue was about -- It was like a movie guide or

like a festival guide.

And so then everyone was like,

"Shit, this is all canceled.

And certainly the news is COVID.

We have to—" So then it became of like all hands on deck of like the

city shutting down.

Like, I remembered the paper, the

front page that week was all these cancels and it was about

everything that was being shut down—like the metro to like

gatherings to restaurants.

And I was responsible for health

care systems and schools.

And this was like DC public

schools was going remote.

Well, it was madness.

Like I remember being very being very stressed with trying

to—because everything is changing so fast, there was a lot of

pressure to be accurate and then also be, yeah, most up-to-date.

It was very hard.

So, but we were remote, and there

were some technical challenges with that.

Like, knowing we've never put a paper out remotely like that.

So there was like—I was not more on the technical side.

I remember like our art design, the art designer, the

publisher—she was struggling and so, like things were going slower.

I remember we didn't put the paper to bed until like midnight or

something ridiculous, when we were all on slack on Wednesday evening

like, "Is everything.

okay?" It was, it was a mess.

So, it became definitely more chaotic for a while.

Yeah, I remember it was just it was there was definitely learning

curve from working at home, not because I was like feeling like—I

was I'm pretty productive at home.

Like I, I don't think like it

changes the way that I like—my behavior and everything like more

tempted like I'm withdrawn in any which way.

It's more.

so like it was just really hard

for those first couple of weeks just to stay on top of all the

news because it was changing so fast and no one knew what the hell

was going on at that point.

Yeah, um.

Yeah, so then you like a couple months ago by, we still don't

really know a lot.

Can you tell me about what working

was like then? Like into April.

What do you mean? Like what would like we're working

in terms of what? Like?

Um, there was still like an inundation of news at that point,

but I guess from the like the initial kind of panic of like

trying to cover all these things and like no one knows what's going

on to moving to like a little bit of a steadier ground.

Um, yeah.

Sure.

So there was definitely a moment—the first couple months.

It was acclimating to a new way of life, right?

Like, Okay, learning curve, like, reporting on this thing that I had

no idea about.

And then to writing, like, I think

every single day or could ever weekly about the coronavirus.

Yeah, you had fell into a habit.

For example, I knew that I would

be going to like press conferences weekly or like I mean, that's it's

like—and over the summer, I was like going to press conferences

three times a week.

And then I had to bet I'd got like

a good, like I— People had known that I was reporting on [COVID]

And so I like started to have like a good rolodex and no one has a

rolodex anymore—but a rolodex of sources, like especially public

health experts that I would turn to.

Because it wasn't enough to just like—I learned eventually that—I

mean, I always knew this especially with COVID like there

was—Because I didn't know it was going on and because I was just

like, "Oh well, like the health department should know what's

happening, like what the heck is.

Like they put out these metrics

was like they would know these are the metrics."

But then after a while, I knew like to be—not more critical, you

always know to be more critical—but in those early days,

I just remember being like, "I want to like communicate

information, right, to help disseminate information."

But then I became more comfortable of like contextualizing it and

then kind of going back "Like, oh they said this."

If that makes any sense.

I got more comfortable reporting

on this issue and then I got better at contextualizing it.

At first it was only, it was just overwhelming where you were just

kind of saying, like, for example, the Mask policy, right?

Kind of like, they're saying, "Don't buy masks."

So that was what I was saying, "Don't buy masks, per government."

But then over time, it became more like you were able to, like, kind

of ask, "Why are we saying? This is what it, why are we making

these choices?" It became clear that, like, governments were not

prepared for this pandemic and like that we needed to, like, and

then City Paper got really serious about like, sometimes the

government in, or even your health officials are not, like making are

not, you know, maybe it's not the best decision.

There are other ways that like governments are responding.

It became very apparent that there like, there wasn't a national

plan, right? Like every, a lot of states or

cities and counties were having different plans.

And so I had to like, I became more comfortable with scrutinizing

what the plan was? Yeah, yeah, definitely.

And moving a little bit to how it affected your personal life or

your, yeah, your personal self.

I mean, you're going in a news

room every day, and then you're hanging out with friends and then

suddenly all that stops.

And then we have like to we're

like, "Okay, like two weeks of this."

And then we have two weeks turns to a month, two months, three

months, four months, and now we're here.

How has that? How kind of initially did, and

then like a couple months after, how did that affect you personally

and mentally? I should say that.

I'm very I was very aware based on like speaking with other people

like I had—one of my first cover story for the City Paper was

interviewing people's experience in quarantine.

But I learned, you know, I would see became (aware) speaking to

sources like—Look, I didn't have kids like school-aged kids in my

house.

Like it was I lived it was myself

and then I had one roommate and we lived in an english basement

apartment and that was rough in terms of I was negotiating where

to work and that was hard but my roommate—she's one of my oldest

friends.

We were close and we both had very

demanding jobs she actually works for a vaccine institute.

So she was very on COVID.

And in fact she became very

helpful during that time because I would like—she went to GW and

like, majored in epi—she majored in public health and like, had the

language, like, she was very articulate.

And so when I needed help, like I would voice it and then we would

talk about it.

But anyways, I was what I was

saying before is, I had learned pretty early and of like my

privileges in the pandemic.

And so there was, I had that it

was like "Okay.

You know, it's just me."

I would go out a lot, you know, before the pandemic.

I was like an avid, uh, patron at my local bar and I love going

there and like taking a load off.

Like I loved going out with

friends and like, bitching about the job, like, this job is very

stressful.

(trails off) Like I missed that

and crave that and especially when work got really hard.

But I also recognize that like, I only had to go to press

conferences.

Even them with my boss wasn't

forcing me to, you know, I really felt a sense of urgency of going

to things like that and asking questions.

But other people were going into like jobs every day, and like that

was scary.

And so I guess I just want to like

recognize like I knew then like I was like pretty fortunate.

Um, but yeah, I mean, like I said it was hard.

I'm a very social person, I missed going out.

And also like the work got really hard and stressful.

So like I really wanted to get a load off but couldn't when the

work day ended.

And—you know, I feel like a lot of

people the work day, you know, and I would—because I was working from

home, I found that I would always be working and let's always be

online and on the internet, because I needed to know what was

happening, the news was changing all the time.

And so that was just a lot of like days that were longer.

I was working so much, like 10-hour days or like more, it was

ridiculous.

And so that was challenging.

And what else was hard? It was really challenging but also

I did like reporting on it.

I think it helped me kind of like

I'm like, I'm like I'm kind of like—I wanted to know what was

going on.

Just like, you know, to kind of

make sure everything was okay.

And so like reporting at all on

it.

I felt like very like I was able

to help my friends like we had group chats, they were like, well,

"What are the rules? What are we supposed to be doing?

What's going on?" And like, me and my roommate Cassie were like "This

is like what we know." And so I felt like a resource

amongst like the people I love and care about.

Even with my mom who is (in) L.A..

I had a lot of anxiety about her

going into work every day because she never got to work remote.

She was one of like essential employees for the county and I

helped me like working a lot strangely like helped me be sane

because then I was able to like know what was happening and able

to kind of—not offer guidance, but like offer just like information.

Like I wasn't obviously I was relaying like official guidance

and like able to kind of help in that I felt like helping—like a

helper in that way be it with my friends or family.

So that made it easier like it was—if that made sense.

Yeah.

(laughs) Yeah, definitely and kind

of getting back to—You began your response by talking about some of

the articles that you wrote.

I mean the main article that

you've talked about was talking to people who had gone remote or

talking to people who are in quarantine.

Are there any other articles that you've written either and

memorable or articles that made a big impact on you that you written

over this past year or past year and a half?

Yeah, I mean, god the pandemic reporting was—I was like writing

on COVID all the time.

It was pretty—I mean, I think that

like I did my best to have the newsletter be—and that's why I

think I'm obsessed with like local reporting because I truly to

communicate the information as clearly as possible because a lot

of information was being like garbled.

So, I'm just like proud of like, the product that was just very

streamlined during the pandemic.

"Like, where are you in line?"

Like those are some articles that I were like, you know, in terms of

getting the vaccine.

Or like, "What are the rules?

what are the reopening rules?" It's stuff like that that I'm

proud of.

Like, it was just, it was truly

intended to be, like a—and I, and I would have people respond and

like ask me questions, especially during the vaccine times.

Because I had seniors asking me, "Where could I go?

What could I, you know, tell me where to find information?" And I

would have that.

The product that was distributed

I'm proud of.

Outside of the newsletter, stories

that stay with me—one in particular that comes to mind is

one that I did about a woman who was pregnant and trying to get her

doula in the room with her on her delivery date and how the visitor

restrictions impeded on that.

And she was super anxious, like

she had to choose between her husband and her doula.

And she wanted, you know, she wanted both and she didn't

understand why she couldn't and the hospital was understandably

like to "We, you know, we're trying to limit the number of

contacts who are you know, in the room because of COVID."

But then also like, doulas saying, "We are healthcare workers.

Why are you not like valuing us as you would the nurse in that room.

We have been with this person through their journey, their

pregnancy journey.

Why am I not allowed in?" And so

the story talked about that—and the woman trying to fight for her

doula to come into the room.

And in the end—she was giving

birth at George Washington University Hospital.

And then in the end, the story made an impact, and they changed

their visitor rules.

So then she was able to have her

doula in the delivery room by her for her delivery date.

But yeah, it was that one stayed with me and just also like gave

me, like—I had a friend or a former colleague at Think Progress

who was also pregnant during this time.

She was like, you know, she was pregnant (unintelligible).

I remember her emailing me and asking me, "What are the rules in

hospitals?" Like she was, she was mostly terrified that she was just

going to have to be alone, like if DC hospitals were ever going to

have like in the New York zero visitors.

She was anxious that she was going to not have a husband in the room

with her.

So, I remember like that became,

like, my mail, I was attached to the hip.

People were constantly emailing me, like, "What are the rules?

What do you know?"And I would do my best to like answer every

single one of them, that was—that I think also like why my work week

was like into the nights and weekends.

I was responding to a lot of their emails.

That's a story that stays with me a lot, actually.

There are a couple of others, but I don't know how many you want me

to name.

You can talk for as long as you

want.

(laughs) I can talk a lot as you

can see.

I guess one other one that I think

about a lot and that's because I always thought about like the

psychology of like the pandemic we think, like, there was so much

guilt but people were experiencing about like how they were

navigating this time.

I know I felt it like, "Am I doing

the right thing?" And I think one of the stories that I wrote about

that, really like, That really underscored them was when people

were getting vaccinated out-of-state.

Like I had so many people—and one of my best friends got vaccinated

out of state because DC had used so many of its doses on its

healthcare workers who, a majority, a vast majority of whom

lived in Maryland and Virginia.

And we were just lower on the

rollout, and so people were getting anxious and got vaccinated

elsewhere.

And I wrote about the

ambiguity—and this, this tension there of like people realizing,

like, "I need to go out of state and get my vaccine.: And no one

was lying, but some people felt guilty.

And so the story is just exploring like, "Why this was happening.

Why are people getting vaccinated out of state?" And in the

end—actually DC just published data finally on this but nearly

20% of DC residents got vaccinated out-of-state, which is wild.

And so my story is a while ago, was about that tension or, like,

about why people weren't—were traveling so far and if anyone

felt compelled to lie, and you know, some people did lie, like

about their residency, some states did check into (unintelligible).

And what it is.

Why what does it say if you have

the means to travel to get, but others—it was very interesting and

then I interviewed—they became a great source—the creator of a

vaccine hunter page.

And how she always felt weird.

She felt like strange about her, her creating this page that had

hundreds of thousands of, like, users and who are all like— they

were all like, you know, hunting for a vaccine.

It was a very interesting story and well that it didn't make any

change, I think it was like I kind of interesting piece just to kind

of have in the archives, right about just like what a fucking

weird time this all is.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

You talked a lot about the emails

that you got from readers or your friends with questions.

I mean, we talked about the seniors, kind of, reaching out to

you.

How did the people that you had

that emailed you, and then the people that you interviewed, how

did they impact, like, either your coverage or you personally?

Both, or neither? I mean, I felt like I was I, How

do they—Okay.

I'll answer the "how do they

impact me professionally?" I mean, the people who reached out and had

questions, you know, when one person had one question.

I realized then, like there are so many other people have the same

exact question.

And so I'm thankful for everyone

contacted me during that time.

While they thought, maybe they

thought their question was stupid.

Like I had a friend actually—and

it would be either emails or Twitter DMs—I had a friend who

owns a local business in the area and, you know, he Twitter DM'd me

and was like he's a business owner.

He was like, "I don't understand what I'm allowed to do."

And I was like, "You and everyone else."

Like people felt like silly, like, they didn't get the rules, but it

was because they were, sometimes they were just poorly

communicated.

I think it was like if capacity

limits were lifted, like, people were unclear if the mask mandate

was, if people still had to mask, was social distancing—there were

just like little logistical things, like how a business

operates that, like, were hard and people didn't know or needed

clarification.

And so I was so grateful when

people like—while I felt overwhelmed at points—like there

was definitely a feeling of like, "Oh my god, I can't handle this.

I'm not equipped to." There was definitely also a sense

of like gratefulness because they trusted me to like answer that and

they also helped my coverage.

I was able to report as thoroughly

as I was doing because people reached out and help guide that

coverage.

I guess to the how it impacted me

personally, like, there was—I mean I was working a lot.

So I again thankfully I'm a single person and like I don't have so I

was able to but then eventually I had to start creating boundaries.

I think like it was non-stop until honestly until DC "reopened."

It was when the mayor lifted all capacity limits on businesses and

then I stopped getting as much emails and then I kind of felt

like it after that.

Like I think my job—I mean the

pandemic is by no means is over but, you know, DC's still under a

state of emergency.

There's still a lot of things but

the job got, I think I also then was like, alright, I think that

chapter of my coverage — of the quick (snaps fingers), like rapid

response about—like I'm no longer doing that kind of work even at

Kaiser Health News.

But there was a moment where it

was just it became like I, you know, I was very -- I was leaning

on my therapist a lot because I was getting exhausted.

And she was talking about like, creating boundaries, like "Don't

check emails the weekend." I started doing this, like, during

the pandemic.

Later in, I started deleting my

Twitter on the weekends on my phone I mean.

Like I always have twitter on my phone, so I would delete it on the

weekends so I don't look at it or like for a day, like Sundays I

wouldn't work.

So I started doing that later on,

in the pandemic then finally.

I'm just kind of the questions and

kind of rapid response just kind of naturally came to a close.

Does that make sense? Yeah, that totally makes sense.

Yeah, we talked a lot about— Can you tell me a little bit more

about how—Can you tell me about the times when you were

overwhelmed, more about those times?

When I was overwhelmed? I mean—How do I, I guess?

I mean, I was just working a lot.

I was just—they were very long

stretches.

And, you know, it also did not

help that while I was like in you know juggling the daily newsletter

that I was writing and publishing five times a week plus writing

longer stories, you know, we went from weekly to monthly.

It was, I mean, it was really really hard and I was like using

like—they weren't, like, long-term solutions to like systemic

problems of being overworked, like, I should—do you know what I

mean? It was just they were I was—like

my therapist was giving me hacks and I was just like, "I mean sure,

I could delete Twitter on the weekends, but I still feel like

anxious and like guilty for not like responding or doing my job,

guess, as thorughouly." really—I mean, there was just a

lot of guilt.

When I say overwhelmed there was

just like a lot of guilt of like not getting to every story or

not—because it wasn't just like I wasn't just reporting about the

coronavirus.

I was reporting on like,

unemployment, like, I was getting emails about like people being on

unemployment and not getting their checks.

I was reporting on like, like things like that were tangentially

related, right? And so there was just like, "I'm

not able to report on everything." and there was a lot of guilt

associated with that but also like, "Amanda, you can't like

handle everything." And so I was leaning on and

honestly became like best friends with my colleagues at City Paper.

Like Laura Hayes is one.

And she felt the same way.

She was, like, feeling overwhelmed like this was—the coronavirus

decimated the restaurant industry and you know, so her and I were

very much leaning on each other.

We wanted to be covering

everything to the best we can and like we were worried if we were

doing it good enough, if we were missing some stuff, if we were

being unfair to certain people or whatever and our coverage—or not

whatever.

It was very serious and we were

wondering if we were doing justice to our sources.

So there's a lot of pressure.

And when we were overwhelmed, we

leaned on one another.

What I was gonna say it was hard

and made it all the harder that we were—and one of the reasons I left

City Paper was that we were underpaid.

You know, there was also like that looming like the City Paper wasn't

doing well financially during this time, you know, like other

businesses.

Like other industries we were

struggling because the pandemic, because, you know, people weren't

buying ads in our paper.

We went to monthly to try to

reduce costs and that wasn't doing it.

And and so, you know, there was definitely fear and complications

like, "Oh are we going to see a pay cut?

Are we going to see layoffs?" Like some papers, alt-weeklies didn't

make it through the pandemic.

So there was definitely like while

going through a global pandemic and trying to cover it, we were

also like dealing with the job insecurity and there was a lot of

anxiety there which made it all the harder.

And yeah, I didn't—I processed that like [unintelligible] made

sure of things and made sure I was good, you know, that I had enough

and, you know, talked to my mom about what would happen if like I

was laid off like, "Would I go home, what would that look like?"

So there were— there a lot of—(laughs) it was a very

overwhelming stressful time and I relied a lot on my friends during

that time and a lot on my therapist.

Definitely.

Yeah, and I definitely want to get

to why you left.

Or I don't—like why.

Let me put another way.

I want to get to why you went to

KHN (Kaiser Health News) in a minute, but I do want to ask—Was

there any time like in these past—how many months, 19 months,

18 months—that you wanted to quit the industry and then why?

Or why not? It's funny.

I think that I wanted—I know I had a stronger desire to quit the

industry when I was nearly laid off at Think Progress.

Like I like actually was looking to becoming a teacher, I looked

at, like, the certification process because at Think Progress

I was like, "I hate this feeling of feeling the possibility—of

feeling like I'm going to be laid off.

Like this is terrible, this is terrifying.

No one will hire me and I'm not good enough."

And there was and that was—Like, I remember how that felt so—like I

remember where I was when I was looking up backup plans and having

those conversations.

During the pandemic.

I never felt as strongly as that.

I think it was because I felt that

the job was so important.

Like, it was like, I was like, I

got like thank you emails, and like, I felt so, like, when people

were, like, grateful of our coverage, like, at City Paper, for

what we were doing.

Like that reinforced my passion

for this, which is why I think I will always have, like, a soft

spot for like covering local DC and local reporting.

Like there's value in, like, that work and in just following the

most mundane, like, hearing or like just—or I mean, I remember

like going to—there was a COVID press conference, the same day

there was like—What was it? No one was there.

It was like me and like to other reporters.

And it was the day that DC was rolling out it's like, like the DC

office director was rolling out the vaccine plan, like it was

before, like it kind of people—no one was just—because it was, that

was corresponding with all the protests in DC and like there was

this summer and so there was just a lot of shit happening.

And no one was—for a moment, coronavirus kind of fell off, but

then I was like still there reporting.

And I felt like I felt like I was like, "Oh my God, like everyone is

covering the protest.

Should I be covering the protest?"

But there was value in that because in the end she talked

about what would be needed to kind of roll back things.

It ended up being really valuable because then I tweeted about it,

and people were like, "Oh shit, like do we remember this press

conference when she said this?" It ended up being really helpful is

the point of that story.

So, I just doing it reinforced me

wanting to be a journalist like—During the pandemic.

I thought of backup plans, but it wasn't because I wanted to get

out.

It was because I knew there was a

possibility that I would be forced out like terms of being laid off

and not having a job waiting for me.

Yeah, I never, I never wanted to quit journalism all together.

Not by like if I had my way, I would do it for—yeah, and

thankfully DC had I mean that DC had a rent freeze.

So, you know, I wasn't worried about—I was making—and I'm happy

to say this—$53,000 at City Paper and I was like, you know, feeling

like I was I was pretty—rent was very expensive, you know and (I)

was anxious about like it, you know, I was always like kind of in

a—I would do month-to-month paycheck, you know, a rather

paycheck by paycheck—live paycheck by paycheck, right?

And so, I was like, anxious about being screwed over in that way,

but we ended up having a rent freeze.

So I was like, "Alright, I can manage this, like, I can handle

this.

I have some savings."

But yeah, I mean I by no means was thinking and looking at job

opportunities outside of journalism Cool.

And then you left the City Paper and went to Kaiser Health News.

Can you talk about that transition?

Why you decided to switch papers? What, what?

Yeah.

The number one reason was pay, man.

And I'd known that, and we'd asked our boss, like, not my direct

boss, it's the person,like the owner—Mark Ein—of the City Paper,

like, if there was any kind of opportunity for paying increases

like for anything, you know, I mean, it was just kind of—it was

near impossible like to get.

So while I didn't lose my job and

grateful for that, like he actually kept us afloat during the

pandemic, we no one was kind of—It was the hardest year of our lives,

like all of ours professionally.

Like this was—so it was so hard.

And, you know, City Paper, we, like, produced a lot of change and

like and no one was, you know, compensated, you know, there was

no kind of anything for that work.

And so, I knew that like, I knew

that the moratorium on rent increases wasn't forever.

I knew if I wanted to remain in Mount Pleasant and like stay in

this neighborhood, I would have to get a better paying job and also

like, living paycheck-to-paycheck sucks like I hate—like, that

socks.

And so I started looking at

Journalism opportunities elsewhere and and Kaiser Health News they

pay better—a lot better.

And so I got out.

And yeah, that was—that was it.

And what—I mean, because that's a

pretty big change to make in a pandemic.

What was that like for you? What was that transition like for

you? I mean, it sucks because I haven't

met, like, I haven't worked in the office like it still feels like

I'm not, like, I still felt very, you know, I haven't ever—like, I

met my editor, thankfully, like she's taken me out to lunch twice

now and I've gone to the physical office to pick up like a desktop

or yeah, I mean, my desktop computer, but the transition has

been hard because it's like I haven't really gotten to meet all

my colleagues in real life.

Like I've done a happy hour with

like three of them.

We all went for drinks after work

one day because they're you know, they reached out and they're nice.

But it's been it's weird for a new job generally.

The job itself, I mean, I feel like reporting on healthcare is

just slower newsroom.

So that's kind of helped.

I can like do this.

At City Paper, like that would

have been really hard or it would have been really tired and not

want to do it.

But now I have more time.

I think also just because like, Kaiser Health News, they know that

we've all been so exhausted.

Like, they actually gave everyone

a week off as a kind of reward, like, you guys just survive this

like hellish year (unintillegible).

Like you get a week off and, like, everyone was getting a week off so

that no one was interrupted with an email on their time off, if

that makes sense.

So like yeah, I mean I think it's

because it's like a healthcare organization.

It's because everyone knows that this has been hellish and they

have some money, the foundation money to kind of support their

workers and do that.

Awesome, and I'm trying to think

of—So, how do you think your perspective on COVID— like COVID

itself—has changed from March? (laughs) From like the dawn of

time, March 2020, to now.

I mean, we know a fuck ton more

about the virus itself.

And I'm just in awe of science,

like it's pretty spectacular what cooperation amongst the scientific

community can do, right? Like, we know so much more.

We know that it's airborne.

We know that it's, you know, we

know, you know, who it is disproportionally impacts, more

about the health conditions that it you know, that it exacerbates.

It's pretty—and because of that, right, I don't feel as nervous.

Like remember when we were terrified to like fucking touch

stuff? Like, my roommate was terrified of

like—and sanitized our packages.

That was fucking crazy—Like, or

no, it wasn't.

I don't mean to stigmatize it.

But it was just wild.

Like it's it's it was it was wild

to be that terrified of things.

Like I remember running with a

mask running on the side of—like, in the middle of the street

sometimes because I didn't want to be—like I took the six feet apart

like very seriously.

Like it's wild that—We now are

better informed and I'm very grateful for all of the, you know,

healthcare workers and like experts rather who also worked

their asses off to help us, you know, become more informed about

what this virus can and cannot do.

Yeah, definitely.

And in terms of your coverage, how has your perspective changed your

coverage? Or like, how have you learned?

What have you learned from this pandemic?

Yeah, about your coverage.

I learned that it—Rather it like

underscored that things are very like, that this is very hard, like

there are no hard—it is not that things are, like, so black and

white.

Like there's murkiness.

And I mean like—and that we don't know a lot of things, like, kind

of going back to like, what we knew—what we did and did not know

about the virus.

Like, I think that the biggest

like, there's just like an assumption, and I kinda alluding

to this earlier of, like, like the science community, like, they're

like experts, they're like, they know, right?

So, and a lot of the time, it could just be having interviewed

so many that they don't like, you know, they don't know, right,

there's a lot of like, ambiguity.

I remember writing a story about

Johnson & Johnson, the vaccine and that, whether folks should be

getting a booster.

And I mean, I was like, it became

very personal because my mom got the J&J, and I was like, "Should

she be getting booster?" in the back of my mind.

And so like, I really approached it from that way and I was looking

for, like, a definitive answer and no one could give it to me.

And like, like, you know, because and then I and I and I learned to

like give people grace in that way in like it because there is no—at

the time there is no yes or no, it's kind of the weighing of

things, right? And one of my favorite moments

from like a public health official and actually, the New York Times

Daily newsletter that are just kind of underscored this

interview.

Yeah, I really do appreciate the

candor in that.

The CDC director being like in

this interview with Andy Slavitt, the former CDC advisor for Biden.

They were talking and she gave just like such a nuanced answer

about whether J&J recipients should to be getting boosters.

And this was even before her agency, even like, like just now,

like, right, like finally gave the okay.

But she was like, "I could understand why people are getting

boosters at and why some healthcare professionals are.

Because if this is what we know, this is the data we do know this

is the data we don't know." And she just like talked to us

like we were smart, right, like we could make—and it wasn't

gratifying.

And sometimes I wish that like—I

want a yes or no, but if you're not going to—there are reasons why

even your experts can't give you a definitive answer.

And it's because there's a lot of ambiguity, there's a lot of nuance

here.

And so I learned, yeah, that that

there is—that's what I kind of learned through all of this is

that you have to kind of keep an open mind with that, with being in

this kind of this moral fog or this kind of like knowledge fog.

It's just (unintelligible) And, you know, I guess how you as a

journalist, how you walk that is by, as clearly as you can walk

through, why there is this fog? Why can't people be giving a yes

or a hard no, you know what I mean?

Like, what's happening here? That's that's what I feel like,

that's kind of the greatest lesson I've learned in terms of coverage.

Yeah, definitely.

And I think it would be I'd be

remiss not to talk about COVID disinformation or misinformation.

Whatever you fancy.

Did you receive any—or have you I

guess, yeah—Have you seen any COVID misinformation?

I mean I assume you have but you have any like specific examples?

I've seen like active—Like you, I think, you know, even speaking

with people there were definitely like some who, like, were, you

know, didn't know.

And so, like, were ill-informed

and then just kind of, like, misspoke (I) was like, "Oh, this

is actually what's happening." So there was—even in like

interviewing people like, "Why are you gotten the vaccine?" "Oh,

because this." And then like in the interview,

this is like kind of being, "Oh this is actually like."

You know, so I definitely saw that professionally and I did my best

to, like, correct the record.

And I wouldn't correct them by

explicitly being like, you're wrong.

I would just like reinforce I do know based on what experts that

I've spoken [told me] or with what the CDC says, you know what I

mean? Like, so there was a lot.

Like anyway, and it wasn't malicious.

Like, a lot of—I mean there is that online, on the internet like

on (unintillegible) but I didn't really engage with that kind of

stuff.

But I'm just saying even with like

people or the folks I was interviewing, about like, "Why are

you not getting vaccinated or what are you—" Like, there was just

like a there was just an honest to God, Like, you know, they assume

something about it.

Like about how it'll interact with

their fertility or like whatever.

And so and so there was a lot of

like balancing even during the interview itself of being like "Oh

actually, this is what, I know." You know what I mean?

Yeah, has not really knowing, or being misinformed about something

related to COVID, specifically—I mean, like you talked about the

examples of COVID vaccines, but—I mean, has that impacted you or

anyone else in your life? Misinformation?

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, one of my cousins, the

person I was like raised with, she didn't want to get the vaccine.

I think this was why I was like empathetic to it while I was

reporting.

It's because people in my own

family were misinformed and didn't want to get the vaccine, so.

And so I was like, I was like very I had almost I have practiced it,

like I'm practicing my lines.

Like as a reporter kind of

correcting the record while I was reporting me and then also my

family, My friends, everyone was like pretty good.

Because, like, my network of people—Like one of my best friends

here, she works at a vaccine institute, like, at a vaccine

institute, a pretty prominent one.

And so like—I was—it could be easy

to assume that like, based on my friendship network that and like

my professional network that like, "Oh, we all know."

But like there was a reminder that no one is obsessively watching the

COVID data like me and my best friends are.

(laughs) Like from my family because they—my cousin is has a

fucking full-time job, like she is not obsessing over COVID.

Even she thought, you know, journalists were blowing it out of

proportion.

Like she was just like she wasn't

watching, she was like, "Why? Or why is there a public health

emergency? I don't understand."

And I'll be like, "Oh, look, here's another the numbers, the

infections, the deaths." Like, because she was an—like her

job wasn't to like, obsess over this information like it was for

me the last, like, year or so.

So there was definitely like

a—that was like a humbling moment, like my family speaking to them

and then like, when I would go out in out in the, quote-on-quote "go

out in the field" and speak with people about vaccine hesitancy.

Like it was just like, because people don't know because people

are not obsessively reading about this because they have like—You

know, so it makes sense to me.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, were there any other topics or moments that you covered in

addition to the pandemic or I mean with the pandemic that were

especially impactful for you? Or were you?

Mainly just, yeah.

I mean, the pandemic was like, I

mean, there was a lot of like crossed—like I said, I was

covering unemployment, which is like pandemic related, right?

Literally (DC) created the program called pandemic unemployment

assistance, right? I was covering housing.

I was covering, like, the eviction, the looming eviction

moratorium being lifted.

I was covering a lot of that.

I was covering—I was covering like, I mean, it was a social

determinants of health.

Because I knew that like people

weren't just obsessing over, whether or not they would catch

COVID.

They were—or wanted to or they

weren't obsessing— readers were not just curious about or nervous

about whether or not they were going to catch COVID, they were

nervous about whether or not they could, you know, like afford rent

or afford—for, like, what was happening with work?

What was happening with metro? What was happening?

Like readers are, you know, and my job as like, a general assignment

reporter for the City Paper was to, you know, arm residents with

knowledge of like other facets of their life that weren't directly

about the pandemic, if that make sense, right?

Like so and then I, you know, and like stories, I was making sure to

like, write about "Was this information like accessible to

like non-english speakers?" Like, there were just like, a lot of

stories that weren't explicitly, like, back like, "This is the

number of cases in DC today," right?

Like the pandemic became I was like kind of looking at people

through this lens of the like, pandemic and then all of the other

stuff, yeah.

That's what happened.

Yeah.

I mean, you talked—I mean, yeah, especially, especially community

journalists really had to cover how the disease and how, I mean, I

wrote how the disease tore apart their communities but like how it

impacted their communities.

Can you talk a little bit about

how it impacted DC? From your perspective.

I mean, we fared better than most other cities, states, but there

were more communities impacted, you know, depending on what ward

you live in—I mean, in what community, you know.

And I mean, I could tell you one building in DC that's been like,

there were so many job losses in that one building next to me—like

they're my neighbors.

There were job losses, there was

rent insecurity because of that, like, while there was an eviction

moratorium that, you know, it's now lifted and they knew that it

was going to be lifted.

So the like anxiety they felt that

way.

And they also had death in that

building, someone who died of COVID.

Like, I mean, it's great.

So like while the numbers showed

that like, DC fared better like me and the changed that building,

right? Like it was very devastating.

And so I mean, yeah, I mean it obvious and obviously this virus

is continuing to kill more—like there was it was one of the

best—he's actually like, he's like a, he's very fascinating and I one

day want to write a story about this gentleman.

He's a data cruncher and he created this website called

DCcovid.com and he like analyzes the health data.

And he is just so smart and I've spoken to him and we used to DM

all the time on Twitter.

And he, anyways, the recent

analysis just like of the 50 deaths that DC's experienced since

June, 49 of those deaths have been of Black people.

Like it's fully disproportionately impacting like a segment and like

60 percent of those deaths were in wards like Ward 8.

And like 50 is not a lot as compared to what another state

with what Florida went through during the wave, this recent

surge.

But it's still not nothing, and

those are lives.

And then like DC's, not that big,

you know, we're a city of 700 thousand people and like nearly

3,000 people have died like that's not nothing.

Because it's hitting certain communities hard like it's yeah, I

am.

It's very upsetting.

Also, I mean those are deaths and like there's also kind of

isolation of that impacts people like, people are so—kind of

parents are still like anxious about their kids.

I hear from parents even though I'm not a local reporter still

about them being anxious about, you know, sending their kids to

school and not being vaccinated.

It's just yeah, I mean it's still

not over, obviously.

Yeah, definitely.

Well, I wanted to I wanted to do these interviews specifically with

a journalist because of burnout that journalism has kind of gone

through a lot of, a lot of journalists have gone through.

And we talked a little bit about that kind of make the, I mean, how

burnout has affected you.

I guess my first kind of question

is how are you, exercising self care?

How have you not gotten burned out—like totally burned out?

So I was definitely like, I was definitely burned out like

during—I mean, I noticed it because I would I became more

irritable, sure, during the pandemic like it was like my

tolerance.

It was funny, I never, I don't

think I let it impact my job, like I was never short with sources,

but I became very short like my family and friends at points

because I was kind of, you know, just talked out and then they want

to talk.

There was a moment where I stopped

just doing Zoom chats because I was just tired of, like, talking

to people, because I was just like, (unintelligible).

So I don't think—there was no, there was no, like, real cure for

it, but I would try—I became like an active runner during the

pandemic.

I was never—hated running.

Now, I'm like, I still like will run three times a week now.

I needed to get out of my head.

I was already like very— I'm a

certified yoga instructor, like I got my certification before the

pandemic hit.

But yoga wasn't helping.

I got more into like high intensity, things.

Like I needed to run away.

(laughs) So um, I became an avid

runner, I'm very into pilates.

I can be very intense with

exercise.

Like five times a week—I mean not

five—six times a week like sometimes seven.

Like, I just—I need to be active because I'm so high-strung that I

need to exhaust myself to like, go to bed.

I also, I will admit that I'm like, have to drink a glass of

wine every day.

It was very—like in the pandemic

was like, all right, how do I come down from this?

Oh, well, a glass of bourbon.

Like that was like, I needed to

have a strong drink, a stiff drink.

I started getting anxious, actually, I was like, "Oh, I'm

having—should I be concerned in some way?" And my therapist was

like, "No, you're fine." Anyways.

Yeah, and I mean you have talked a lot about your therapist.

Has therapy, has that, been a help?

Yeah, I'm sad, we are now going monthly.

Well, we got one monthly because she's out of network, when I

started at Kaiser Health News.

But also, like I said, I kind of

have no longer producing or not as—Some reporters are still like

in the thick of it, like are still, you know, it hasn't changed

for them.

It's changed for me, immensely.

Like again, once DC—I'm no longer a local reporter, so I think

that's changed, which is strange because my job is like, I felt

like my job has gotten easier now that I'm a full-time, healthcare

reporter.

But that's because Kaiser Health

News is very mindful—they are very mindful of burnout and stuff like

that, like they give up a lot of time and a lot of like—There's

not—it's not the same, like simpler time crunch with Kaiser as

it was with City Paper.

But anyways, um, yeah, I was

seeing my therapist like weekly during the pandemic, and that

helped.

Sometimes I would have to cancel

though honestly, because I was just, I was like, I can't.

Which is shitty, but I would try really hard to see her weekly and

now I'm monthly because she's out of network and she's expensive.

Yeah, cool.

And if I mean we keep saying like

we're post pandemic and like I mean as you emphasized, we're not

post pandemic.

We are still in a pandemic, but I

know that scientists, healthcare workers and even journalists are

looking towards the next pandemic.

So if you could talk to the

reporters of the next pandemic, what is one or two pieces of

advice? Would you give them?

If you're going to report on a government's recommendation or

response to something, get a, get a public healthcare—public health

experts two cents.

Because while it might seem "Oh,

yeah, that seems like a smart idea," get someone who knows

healthcare to, like, comment if you can.

There's a like (pressure to) publish, publish but like you want

to be accurate and you want contextualize, because it's not

helpful if you don't do that.

I'd also say and also another like

kind of technical thing would be: not every public health expert is

an epidemiologist or infectious disease expert.

Some of those are not interchangeable things.

And so, look at people's experience.

Like, yeah, I've seen so many journalists misidentify public

health experts as epidemiologists and they're not that.

So that's another thing.

I would just have like, someone

might— and I, you know, you get a lot of PR people who are telling

you like, "Here are a list of experts that you can reach out

to." Like, look at them, google them,

see what's their specialty is, because they could be just

interested in, you know, becoming the next leading expert in

something and being reported all over everywhere.

Are there any other pieces of advice that you give them?

To those two are really helpful.

In terms of covering a pandemic,

like, be critical, and yes, always and don't rush—that you don't have

to rush to publish.

Like that's, I don't know, there's

like a rapid response, but like you want—and this is just—just

value accuracy and context.

Absolutely.

Yeah, definitely.

Well, is there any other questions

that you wish I would've asked? You did a really—you covered a

lot.

No, I mean, I think that—I think

we done did it.

Yeah.

Cool.

Well, thank you very much for

taking the time to do this interview today.

Your interview has been very informative— I hope so.

I mean, I feel like—I hope I made sense, sometimes I was

like—(gestures about, to imply that she was all over the place).

Absolutely.

It will be a valuable contribution

in the future for understanding the COVID pandemic.

So I'm gonna turn off the recording now.

Well, thank you.

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