Catherine Hargrove Interview, September 14, 2019

INDEXED CLIP TIME: 00:00:05.130 --> 00:01:45.470 SEGMENT SYNOPSIS: Carmen Bolt interviews Catherine Hargrove on September 14, 2019 during the Celebrate Petworth Festival. In this clip, Catherine Hargrove discusses what Petworth was like. SUBJECTS: 2019 Celebrate Petworth Festival; Petworth (Washington, D.C.)

My name is Carmen Bolt. I'm a PhD student at American University. We're here with the Humanities Truck in the Petworth neighborhood. We're interviewing community members about their experiences. What they've seen change over the years. It's September 14, 2019. Please tell me who you are and how you came to Petworth.

My name is Catherine Hargrove. I came to Petworth in the mid 1980s. I came after having been living in Boston and moved here after law school. And I bought my first house.

And what was Petworth like when you moved here? What did it look like?

It was a family oriented neighborhood at least the block I live on one of the one of the shortest blocks, probably in the city and in this neighborhood. There were a number of families here. It was a time when the city did not do what it should do in terms of the keep up of the neighborhood, whether it was the street or the building, or the park. Because I live in Grant Circle and there's a small park across the street, and Grant Circle is a large part. But actually the the federal government maintains the parks not the city but the city didn't deal with the streets throw the trash.

INDEXED CLIP TIME: 00:01:48.200 --> 00:03:47.230 SEGMENT SYNOPSIS: Carmen Bolt interviews Catherine Hargrove on September 14, 2019 during the Celebrate Petworth Festival. In this clip, Catherine Hargrove discusses how Petworth has changed. SUBJECTS: Petworth (Washington, D.C.); Gentrification; Affordable housing

You said it was a community oriented space. So what has changed about Petworth since you moved here initially to now?

My block is still community oriented. Because my neighbors when I first came here told me they that they watched my back and front. So they always knew when I was home my schedule, they even tell people if they came to my porch that she's not, you know, she's not home. It's not time for her to be home. It is still community oriented. But it has more white people. It is gentrified. So there are the three black people, families in our block have been there. Before they do other than myself.

Since then, you know, black or white people?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. I mean, they're all and I've seen a number of people who have moved out of the community because they kept the houses of being sold, one of the persons who does some of the work at my house, he used to live up the street and has to move. There was a guy who used to do some handyman work. I remember when he came and said he wanted to borrow some money because he had to, he had to move. In fact, before he had to move, I helped him go to one of the local agencies to get some help to stay in housing. But at last one day said he wanted to borrow some money. And I knew he didn't want to borrow it, because he didn't have ability to pay it back. So he's gone. He's gone. Another person I know has moved outside further up in the neighborhood because you can't afford to live it in the neighborhood. But you know, even though I have my neighbors are all white. Now we have a very diverse block, a very good community.

INDEXED CLIP TIME: 00:01:48.200 --> 00:03:47.230 SEGMENT SYNOPSIS: Carmen Bolt interviews Catherine Hargrove on September 14, 2019 during the Celebrate Petworth Festival. In this clip, Catherine Hargrove discusses other ways Petworth has been impacted by gentrification. She describes rude behavior by neighborhood newcomers. SUBJECTS: Petworth (Washington, D.C.); Gentrification; Community crime prevention programs; Illegal drug activity; Public transportation

What other ways have you seen gentrification impact the community?

We have streets are cleaned. We have people proposing a bike share. We have regular trash pickup. We do not have some of the crime that was there. You know, there was, you know, an incident, you know, with with crime and actually, I talked with the guy who was probably involved about trying to help him deal with the drug addiction and job search, but you can't just do that alone.

And one of the things that happens with gentrification particularly I think there's an issue with regard to elderly. Sometimes you may see a lawn that is unkept. And you might say, you know, what's going on? If the person is elderly, one, they may not have the money for the maintenance. Two, they may not have the physical ability to maintain it. So someone may make decisions about the person based on something they don't know. So you can also deal with things about how to have lawns that require low maintenance or if you have a sense of neighborhood who can, in fact, do those things. So the elderly are I think are greatly impacted, you know. The knowledge about when to sell. Who to sell to. What happens when you need a repair. Right now I need a repair to a room. Fortunately I am able to do that. But it is, you know, it's an expense.

The public transportation has improved because, in fact, they, the green line is here now, but prior to that, we have a lot of digging in the area because the main station, or at least I was told the main station is in the park. So that's some of the impacts of gentrification, I think.

Also, in fact, you know, people now have their younger children, but there are also older adults. So how do you treat them? I know I was really annoyed when I came down the street a few minutes ago. And there was a family had a big dog. And some children who I stopped because I didn't know what. And they were insistent that the dog knew the left side of the street and wanted me to move on me like, you know, I don't know why they wanted me to move over. Or they were not concerned that I might be fearful. And they just said, "Oh, he knows the left side of the street. He knows the left side of the street." So I come from an era when black people were expected to move over. When I went to college, which I went to a predominately white college women's college. That was something that really got my you know, really annoyed me and it annoyed me today because they let the dog and the children walk on by and they were so excited about the fact that the dog knew the left side. And I said to them, I am a human. Now I don't know whether they understood that or not. But to me that is that is truly disrespectful. So some of the people in the neighborhood who are new, do not know or care to learn what are some of the the laws or how to treat people, people will come by and they will, and I'm a Southerner. So I expect people to speak, but they don't mean but that dog situation really blew me off.

INDEXED CLIP TIME: 00:07:39.120 --> 00:10:25.830 SEGMENT SYNOPSIS: Carmen Bolt interviews Catherine Hargrove on September 14, 2019 during the Celebrate Petworth Festival. In this clip, Catherine Hargrove discusses the importance of recording community history and more examples of disrespect by white people in Petworth. SUBJECTS: Petworth (Washington, D.C.); Gentrification

Sorry, that happened. What do you think the importance of recording community history is in Petworth?

Well, as people age, more people are seeing what we knew all along. Because I tell some of the people I've said it at the AMC meeting. Columbus didn't discover Petworth. Petworth was here. Some the neighborhood was allowed to decay. My late neighbor who died I think at 103 was the first black person to live in the block. She carried around with her some documentation to show what she and her her husband had done. So black people have been here. This was originally a Jewish community. So when we are here and are disrespected, it is not a good feeling.

I consider myself an internationalist. So it's not that I don't want certain people here it's that I want people to be respected, I mean, so while this while this the Latina neighbors, or, you know or for anyone who comes in. There was a Latina woman behind me at this event. And my Spanish is not good. Her English was not good. But she was looking at the order list and so I bought her some tickets. So she wanted one of the flyers, which allows you 15% off. And the white lady looked her at and said, no, no. And then she saw tried to act like she was just going to give her one of the in addition to the ticket, one of the things that I said I bought her tickets, she can have one of those. Now whether she felt disrespected or not. She just made a presumption that that woman did not have a right to that card. Now, you know, I don't know how much she would have lost if she would have handed the woman the card without any discussion. There are not very many people coming here trying to get an extra card. So, you know, and the woman's friends came later, and I, I had some extra, you know, extra money, but they couldn't buy them, but I just didn't like the way she presumed that she did not have a right to have that. So, you know, that's those are my thoughts, though.

INDEXED CLIP TIME: 00:10:25.890 --> 00:11:39.870 SEGMENT SYNOPSIS: Carmen Bolt interviews Catherine Hargrove on September 14, 2019 during the Celebrate Petworth Festival. In this clip, Catherine Hargrove discusses the importance of recording community history and more examples of disrespect by white people in Petworth. SUBJECTS: Petworth (Washington, D.C.); Gentrification

Is there anything else you'd like to add?

I think there should be more discussions about gentrification, rather than just decide that it is occurring. And understanding what are norms that people you know, and not that people don't have a right to make changes in, things changes will occur. But learn some of the history. Learn some of people's backgrounds. Learn some of their experiences, such that you can become neighbors, but I think I probably live on one of the most diverse blocks. And we actually get along we have a we have a good block. We're always concerned about who is coming in. Each person seems to have a particular role. So we are helpful to each other without being, you know, totally involved in somebody's life. So, but I mean, I think that's it that I would have to say,

Thank you so much for participating. I really appreciate it.